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View Diary: gist of Rahm Emmanuel:".... Israel has screwed itself" (340 comments)

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  •  Netanyahu, and Sharon have screwed their future (9+ / 0-)

    These extra militant leaders have short term been reflexively been pursuing a grudge match, not a strategy.  

    Short term thinking has eclipsed long term thinking.  Thus, you have a drive to just keep on punishing and punishing the Palestinians.  But in doing so, by allowing more and more crazy settlers to park themselves on Palestinian lands, they have really made a two state solution impossible.  

    The only option left is for a state that incorporates the local Arab population, whether with or without suffrage.

    In several generations, the way this is most likely to play out if smarter leadership does not enter the picture, is that Israel will be a multi-ethnic state.  

    The decision point probably came when that extremist shot Israel's best leader, Rabin.  He killed more than one man.  He in fact, may have killed Israel as well.

    Those people who come on here and argue for Israel, all seem to be thinking short term and to be only considering the latest tit or tat.  If there was more concern for strategy and envisionment for something other than reaction to the latest episode of whatever, there might still be a possibility.

    But Rahm may be right.  The window may be closed and Israel may have closed it.  

    hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

    by Stuart Heady on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 09:36:43 AM PST

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    •  I agree that Israel lacks (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JNEREBEL, chira2, mahakali overdrive

      a coherent long term strategy. The short term strategy is pretty wibbly-wobbly as well depending on the facts on the ground.

      My argument is that Israel has no choice but to come up with a long term strategy that is non-violent in how it solves problems even while always being prepared for the need for acts of violence in the short term

      If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
      If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
      If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

      by A Gutin Daf on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 10:43:14 AM PST

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      •  a move towards non-violence would also (5+ / 0-)

        secure a great deal of international support--or at least tolerance-that it doesn't have.  

        Israel was making substantial progress in the early 1990s in this front...Gulf War restraint, Oslo, Rabin's gradual embracing of 'land for peace'....

        •  It has never been clear to me (4+ / 0-)

          exactly what "international support" brings to the table. Economically, for example, Israel already has a ridiculous amount of foreign investment, especially in the tech sector. On the flip side there are some very powerful multinationals based in israel - Teva Pharmaceuticals comes to mind.

          While international support may make Israel feel better (maybe) there is a very low risk to Israel of ignoring the community of nations; no one is very interested in starting a war or even police operation and I have my doubts whether any real successful divestment (which I am against anyway) will ever take place.

          On Rabin - his innovation was less land for peace and more that he is the only Prime Minister since '67 who has ever publicly stated that the settlers are a big part of the problem. As long as the settlement blocks wield too much influence (see my other comment about the weaknesses of parliamentary democracy in this situation) progress will only come grudgingly and in fits and starts.

          If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
          If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
          If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

          by A Gutin Daf on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 11:21:50 AM PST

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          •  You don't see "how international support"... (0+ / 0-)

            good for Israel?!!!

            •  Besides making Israel and its supporters feel good (0+ / 0-)

              I am not sure what the overall point is.

              To be clear - by "International" support I read international consensus, among nations, to support Israel. I suppose you could count the United States as international support, but I only see it as US support (for which, as a Zionist, I am grateful).

              Over 3000 years of history the Jewish people have learned to never count too much on any one or even group of nations as it is amazing how quickly (in historical terms) attitudes change.

              Instead of worrying about political support Israel has made itself a vital cog in the international business machines of research, technology, medicine, and pharmaceuticals. Governments come and go but multinationals will always protect a profit center.

              If you believe that ALL criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're an idiot.
              If you believe that NONE of the criticism of Israel is antisemitic, you're a fool.
              If you call EVERYONE who criticizes Israel antisemitic, you're just an a$$hole

              by A Gutin Daf on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 07:11:47 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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