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View Diary: Guns, what guns? (44 comments)

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  •  Criminals with guns (6+ / 0-)

    is a problem. How will gun control keep criminals from obtaining firearms? Do you have a specific proposal in mind?

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 09:27:47 AM PST

    •  More restrictive purchases and elimination of gun (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wilderness voice, happy camper

      shows. Most of the weapons come from gun runners who run these weapons up from southern states where sales are so lax in restrictions as to be laughable.

      They are then processed then ran to locations where restrictions are in place. A national true gun control law instead of handing it off to the states would do wonders.

      See the assault weapons ban and its positive effects.

      --Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson--

      by idbecrazyif on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 10:27:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The assault weapons ban (6+ / 0-)

        had no real effect one way or another. It was a ban on cosmetic features of new weapons sold by dealers. Weapons already in private hands were unaffected. Manufacturers who removed features like flash suppressors and bayonet lugs were able to continue selling the very same weapons, with the same actual capabilities. There was no effect on crime rates, either, because these sort of weapons are seldom used by criminals.

        Eliminating gun shows will not eliminate private sales of used guns, which are unregulated just about everywhere.

        "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

        by happy camper on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 10:51:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's the argument though (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          happy camper
          Eliminating gun shows will not eliminate private sales of used guns, which are unregulated just about everywhere.
          There is no silver bullet that will change things, many things need to be changed. I only brought up gun shows as a clear example of just bad policy.

          And obviously a black market will never go away, but it is far to easy to purchase weapons now both legal and illegal. More restrictive purchasing nationally with national registers would sky rocket black market prices and reduce the number of weapons on the streets.

          I am not arguing that no one should have access to own a gun, but that we literally have to many effing guns in this country.

          --Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson--

          by idbecrazyif on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 10:57:09 AM PST

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          •  Restricting (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KVoimakas, gfv6800, ER Doc, oldpunk

            legal purchases and instituting a national registry seem like they are unlikely to result in fewer guns in criminal hands. Attempts at a national registry would more likely result in a wave of Republicans elected to high office, an outcome that none of us want.

            Legalizing drugs would eliminate the motive for half of all murders by firearm, which are related to drug and gang activity.

            "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

            by happy camper on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 11:20:41 AM PST

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            •  I cannot agree with legalization for all drugs (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              happy camper

              not after watching a brother in law destroy himself with meth.

              I can agree to reducing criminal sentences and a sharp increase in in treatment programs

              --Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson--

              by idbecrazyif on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 11:49:25 AM PST

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              •  If amphetamines were legal (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                oldpunk

                people wouldn't be ruining their lives with home brewed poison. They'd take inexpensive over the counter stimulants with far fewer bad side effects than the nasty methamphetamine analog one gets using sudafed tabs and fertilizer as ingredients. Making chemical substances for sale should be illegal, without proper facilities and licensing, just as it is unlawful to distill hard liquor, and for the same reason: it's too easy to screw it up.

                The illegality of drugs is where much of the harm originates. It also increases the stigma of treatment for addiction.

                "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

                by happy camper on Tue Dec 04, 2012 at 01:56:32 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Silver bullet? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PavePusher

            I'd settle for you suggesting something that is even remotely connected to the problem at hand.  That's why your side was so damned useless in getting a hold on violent crime over the past two decades.

      •  Wow, just making stuff up now. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PavePusher, theatre goon, wishbone

        There's no evidence whatsoever that even a significant minority of crime guns are trafficked across state lines illegally. The percentage of crime guns originating from gun shows is vanishingly small.  There is no evidence of any positive effect due to banning imaginary categories of firearms ("assault weapons").

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