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View Diary: Charter schools don't perform as advertised, but try getting their advocates to admit that (152 comments)

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  •  I love ya, Laura, but (5+ / 0-)

    my child went to an astounding charter school.  We were so thrilled with his education there.  And he had an IEP.  He was a special needs kid.

    There has been almost no turn-over in teaching staff.  Their documentation of student progress is unparalleled in the district.  They consistently get "exceptional" ratings in district assesments.  We still donate to this school even though our son has been gone from there for 5 years.

    There are exceptions to the "Charter schools are terrible!" chant.

    I understand your point in this diary, but there are charter schools that kick major ass.  My kid went to one.  (And how he ended up in a charter school is an interesting story.  Totally the fault of the school district.  Totally.)

    Can you call yourself a real liberal if you aren't reading driftglass?

    by CJB on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 07:06:26 PM PST

    •  the plural of anecdote is not data (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      A Citizen, mrkvica, bear83, m00finsan, Mostel26

      I'm sure that Laura would be the first to agree that there are some good charter schools out there, that does not undermine her argument one bit.

      Here are some questions for you:
      (1) Does your charter school accept all students who apply?

      (2) Does your charter school offer the same range of subject matter as the local public school(s)?

      (3) Does the existence of this charter school cut significantly into the budgets of local public schools, thus making it even harder for them to give their students equally good educations?

      (4) If (a long shot) those three questions are answered yes, yes, and no, then do you believe that the existence of one exemplary charter school invalidates all of the research cited in Laura's article?

      •  Yes, yes, no in our case (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bsegel, CJB, elfling

        I could hear the relief when I told the principal at our wonderful community school my kid was going to a charter school because they do not have the space. Our community school is highly sought after because of its high test scores. States differ in terms of how well they regulate charter schools. As I said below, the techer's union even sponsors them in MN. You can look at the states and charter schools that do a good job serving students and advocate for these policies. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Lots of kids do not do well in traditional schools and need other public school options. Some kids have unique talents. Some families want language immersion. Some kids need a refuge from big schools. All charter schools in Mn select by lottery and must comply with state testing. Yes some probably do underperform, but so do some community schools. Education is not a one size fits all prospect.  I am so grateful I had many, many choices about where to send my daughter.

      •  Check my post below (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CJB

        These questions are all addressed by state laws.

        I really feel the discussion we should be having here on DKos isn't that Charter schools are all evil (with a few exceptions) but that state laws need to be strengthened.

        Let's look at the states who have figured out how to make Charter schools work, through regulations and build on that. Let's make those states a model for other states to emulate.

      •  Yes, yes, no and (0+ / 0-)

        your last question is unnecessarily confrontational.  

        Can you call yourself a real liberal if you aren't reading driftglass?

        by CJB on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 08:39:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  no it's not (0+ / 0-)

          the existence of a good charter school does not negate any aspect of the bigger picture.

          •  Sweet Spot posted a ridiculous straw man. (0+ / 0-)

            You perpetuate that straw man.  

            I am done here.

            Can you call yourself a real liberal if you aren't reading driftglass?

            by CJB on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 09:03:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  What "straw man?" (0+ / 0-)

              I don't think you know what that term actually means.

              Sweet Spot asks four questions. That is all.

            •  How so? (0+ / 0-)

              Research is done using multiple sources of information. The fact that some people can smoke all their lives and live to be 100 doesn't mean that smoking is safe, or that it doesn't contribute to causing lung cancer.
              The same is true of experiences with charter schools.

              I can give anecdotes too.
              For example, I can point out that because (the parents of) a few children from my local elementary school chose to attend a  charter school, the local elementary school lost the equivalent in funding of a full teacher's salary and benefits. Since that school had only one class per grade, it put the school in a very precarious position in regard to all the rest of the students there.

              Or I can tell you about the three districts nearby that are contemplating bankruptcy because some (parents of) kids in those districts' schools chose to attend charter schools.

              I'm sure I can find examples of individuals who had great experiences in charter schools near hear, but each of those great experiences came at a great cost to the students who are in the public schools. Is this really what we want to do? If so, then we're doing the republicans' job for them.

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