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View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Live Digest: 12/7 (251 comments)

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  •  Is Raising the Medicare Retirement Age Okay? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bfen

    That is, is it okay if we get many other things in return?

    Just to establish this but not turn this into a policy discussion, this doesn't seem to do a lot to really improve the finances of the program and in fact might raise costs for those in their mid-60s. That said, as Jon Chait points out in his post arguing that this might not be the worst thing to cede in the negotiations, this suddenly makes a lot of people very dependent on the Affordable Care Act. From a political stand point, that might be a good thing at all levels.

    I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I'm against it, because it doesn't save a lot of money and might make things a lot harder for a lot of people. Somewhat less importantly, it gives the right-wing notion that entitlements need big, right-wing changes more credibility. On the other hand, it's not as if this would mean an unheard of level of suffering. There are options for these people to get/maintain coverage, and if it does mean there's a new and powerful group of people that will support the A.C.A., that's a good thing in a political and policy sense. It also depends on what, exactly, we could get in return.

    If I had to pick a side now, I'd probably still be against it.

    What do you guys think?

    I'm a corporatist McGovernite Atari Democrat...I think.

    by bjssp on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 10:47:28 AM PST

    •  My response: (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen, Woody, Skaje, LordMike, MichaelNY

      "nuts."

      There are certain lines you don't cross as a Democrat, and this is one of them.

      Ok, so I read the polls.

      by andgarden on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 10:50:22 AM PST

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    •  Not really for the Daily Digest (9+ / 0-)

      I think this conversation is better suited elsewhere on Daily Kos.  I know it's an important discussion but this section is really for horse race comments only.

      NY-7 in real life, @BobbyBigWheel on Twitter

      by Bobby Big Wheel on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 10:54:00 AM PST

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      •  Bringing the issue back to elections (0+ / 0-)

        If this happens, and Democrats don't want to suffer disastrously low base turnout in 2014, they better get a lot in exchange for it.  It was OK to give a lot in 2011 when after the midterms Obama really was repudiated and had his back to the wall.  But after a big win, you better negotiate for most of what you want, and if you surrender anything your base cares about, you better get a lot in exchange for it.

        44, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

        by DCCyclone on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 11:19:47 AM PST

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        •  It isn't any different (0+ / 0-)

          To lower conservative turnout should Republicans allow tax increases. The nature of any deal is both sides giving something up. It may not be this but if there is agreement before New Years there will certainly be elements Democrats hate. But the other side will likely hate the package even more.

          "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

          by conspiracy on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 11:46:18 AM PST

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          •  I don't think that's quite right (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY

            If you look at polling, it's very consistent that rank-and-file Republicans are divided on taxes, and rank-and-file Democrats are united in opposing entitlement benefit cuts.

            So it's not the same political impact, it's not the same at all.  Our side will oppose benefit cuts far more strongly than Republicans will oppose tax hikes on the rich.  Yes the teabaggers are among the fierce opponents, but they're only as powerful as their ability to get their party's masses to follow them.

            44, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and 2 boys, Democrat, VA-10

            by DCCyclone on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 12:00:18 PM PST

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            •  If that was the deal (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DCCyclone

              I think more Republicans would lose primaries as a result of their vote than Democrats. Anyway, my main point remains that both sides will have to suck it up to some degree should there be a deal. I agree with you Democrats should be in position to get the better of it.

              "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

              by conspiracy on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 12:36:24 PM PST

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      •  I'm not trying to discuss (0+ / 0-)

        the policy ends. I was trying to discuss the political ends. In regards to those who would be on Medicare but might not be because of the change in the retirement age, this might make them good political allies for us when it comes to making the sure the ACA is strengthened and protected. That's what I wanted to discuss, along with comments like DCC's in regards to base turnout in 2014.

        I'm a corporatist McGovernite Atari Democrat...I think.

        by bjssp on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 11:27:39 AM PST

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    •  Um, you are aware this is the DKE page right? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen

      Not that these aren't important issues but this section is all about pure horse racing prognostications. While your question about Michigan does go into whether we can somehow galvanize an electoral response to fight this.

      This one though seems to be a clear violation of David's rules for this page. Just letting you know unless I am wrong, then I apologize in advance.

    •  This idea that we can lose to help us win in the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY

      future is nonsense.  President Bush & 2010.  Winds change too fast.  

    •  It would be terrible politics (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY

      if we are complicit in raising the eligibility age, Republicans will run ads against us on it next time.

      •  Even though they vote for it? (0+ / 0-)

        It isn't like Obamacare "cuts" passing with only Democratic votes.

        "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

        by conspiracy on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 12:30:30 PM PST

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        •  I put nothing past them n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JBraden
          •  Sure (0+ / 0-)

            Individuals would no doubt try a la TARP but much harder to make it work where bipartisan legislation is concerned.

            "What do you mean "conspiracy"? Does that mean it's someone's imaginings and that the actual polls hovered right around the result?" - petral

            by conspiracy on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 12:42:23 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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