Skip to main content

View Diary: Daily Kos Elections Live Digest: 12/7 (251 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  the old Democrats in those states (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lordpet8, BKGyptian89, JBraden, MichaelNY

    the Demosaurs, were generally not pro-union, (Bill Clinton was okay as president, but not very union-friendly as governor, for example), and both at the federal and state levels have held us back.  If we'd had a solid Democratic front in 2009, for example, and passed EFCA, RTW would not have been enough to keep labor down in those states, and the South would have seen a surge in organizing.  Unfortunately, we did not have a solid front because of a couple Democratic senators from Right to Work states.

    As the Democrats in the South become more liberal, they will likely become more pro-labor, and if we return to power in Noth Carolina, Virginia, or elsewhere, I think labor laws will be reformed in a serious way.

    ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

    by James Allen on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 11:15:15 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  A lot of democrats are still squishes... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen, LordMike, JBraden, MichaelNY

      Chet Culver said he would support an end to right-to-work in Iowa, and then abandoned his position.  

      State workers were originally supposed to get comprehensive bargaining rights in Colorado when Bill Ritter was governor, and he ended up signing some half-assed executive order instead which only provided for limited rights.

      On the other hand, Democrats in several states have passed card-check legislation (largely for public workers) in recent years.  I'm not saying all Democrats are anti-labor, but there still are enough bad apples that a simple majority in both houses of the legislature and a Democratic governor isn't enough.  

      •  depends on the state (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bumiputera, MichaelNY

        a lot of people assume that Oregon and Washington are similar politically, but as you said, here in Oregon we have passed pro-labor reforms in 2007 (card check for public workers) and 2009 (ban on captive audience meetings).  In Washington the latter legislation we passed was being pushed at the same time by labor groups there, but couldn't even get a hearing from the Democrats in control, both Gregoire and the state legislative Dems.

        In Iowa, Vilsack did more for labor than Culver.  Culver was an all-around disappointment.  Same with Ritter.  Do you know how Hickenlooper is?

        ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

        by James Allen on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 11:34:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  This seems like a very odd and stupid move. (0+ / 0-)

      What did these Democratic senators fear in response to voting for EFCA? It seems like they weren't thinking about the long-term and how this might strengthen the party's base and give them some particularly important support, which might come if they were known as the ones that supported it. I know, as telephasic said, that not all unions are great friends of Democrats, but if we made it clear who was for them and who wasn't, might that change?

      I have to ask, can you calculate the effect of Democrats passing EFCA? And why would RTW not have been enough to hold them down? Again, this seems like such a boneheaded move by Democrats.

      You seem to be kind of hopeful that changes might come in the South. I am, too. You also seem to know quite a bit about this. Can you point me to some good information on these topics?

      I'm a corporatist McGovernite Atari Democrat...I think.

      by bjssp on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 11:44:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  it's incalculable. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bjssp, MichaelNY

        From a partisan Democratic perspective it seems stupid, but they are truly anti-labor Democrats.

        I don't know any particular resources, and I'm trying (and somewhat failing as it is) to study for finals so I shouldn't go looking right now.

        ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

        by James Allen on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 11:51:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not so sure about NC (0+ / 0-)

      Cause if it was such a big deal democrats would have passed some kind of union legislation before they lost power. Thy never did, and i don't see what would make them change their minds.

      21, Male, NC-02 home, SC-04 School. Majoring in Piano Performance.

      by aggou on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 01:16:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  well actually it makes sense (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        James Allen, bjssp, MichaelNY

        the two parties are both moving away fromt he center. There probably quite a few conservative Democrats in the NC legislature that were defeated. Now if the Dems were to take back control  of NC legislature they have a more liberal ideolody for their majority.

        Its the same way House of Reps today under Republican control(2011-present)  is way more conservative in ideology than during their previous rule of the chamber(1995-2007)

        In 1977, 31 percent of Californians supported same-sex marriage. That grew to 49 percent in 2009. In 1975, 51 percent of Californians supported abortion rights, support swelled to 70 percent in 2006, All while Republican opposition stayed the same.

        by lordpet8 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 02:03:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Perhaps, but (0+ / 0-)

          NC really never has had unions. WI, MI, OH, etc have had them for a long long time. It's slightly different for NC, imo, just because we never have had them. So in a sense, the Democrats down here might not see a need to make NC unionized, since it never has been, and they sort of, if you will, don't know what it's like to have them, whereas MI, OH, WI haven't known what it's like not to have them.

          21, Male, NC-02 home, SC-04 School. Majoring in Piano Performance.

          by aggou on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 03:21:12 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  states aren't unionized (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MichaelNY

            individual workplaces are.  Getting rid of Right to Work, or simply giving public employees collective bargaining rights, wouldn't "unionize" a state.  It would just make it easier for people to form effective unions.

            ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

            by James Allen on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 03:30:37 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Perhaps, I am still unsure if (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MichaelNY

              given the chance to gain power again, Democrats in NC would get rid of Right to work. Perhaps they will, but I'm still not fully sure they would.

              That's my main point.

              21, Male, NC-02 home, SC-04 School. Majoring in Piano Performance.

              by aggou on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 03:43:40 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not sure they would (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                but I think when Democrats come back in North Carolina, they won't be the same Democrats that have been in power for the last few decades.

                ...better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity, than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference. -FDR, 1936

                by James Allen on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 08:35:59 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Well, think of it this way, aggou: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY

        if the Republicans try to do away with unions in states like Wisconsin to cement power, why couldn't Democrats do the opposite in states like North Carolina? They'd have to gain power back, but giving unions new life in the state might be a way to quickly expand their coalition and mobilizing powers, particularly since they'd probably be the only ones who would be courting them.

        I'm a corporatist McGovernite Atari Democrat...I think.

        by bjssp on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 02:26:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  isn't NC the least-unionized state in the union? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY

        It used to brag about that in past years.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (129)
  • Community (63)
  • Bernie Sanders (44)
  • Elections (36)
  • Hillary Clinton (28)
  • Culture (28)
  • 2016 (27)
  • Climate Change (26)
  • Civil Rights (23)
  • Science (22)
  • Environment (22)
  • Law (19)
  • Spam (19)
  • Republicans (18)
  • Media (18)
  • Labor (18)
  • Barack Obama (17)
  • Trans-Pacific Partnership (15)
  • White House (14)
  • International (13)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site