Skip to main content

View Diary: The NRA's solution to gun violence is... (250 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Oh, please... (7+ / 0-)

    In group diaries and comments we have offered any number of solutions to crime and violence in general. You just don't like that none of them involve broad-based restrictions on firearm possession.

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 10:11:12 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Given the lack of links, let's look at the obvious (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phil S 33

      The purpose of a group entitled RKBA is about the right to bear arms, and in practice its "interests", as kestral9000 referred to, is to prevent restrictions on firearms, and restrictions relating to firearms.

      That's why its titled "RKBA", not "Solutions to Violence".  Or "Huntin' Time", or "Collectors of Firearms" or something else.  The "interests" are just that: avoiding firearm restrictions, not finding alternative means of avoiding violence.

      But hey, I said that the appearaence of the RKBAers here was limited to shutting down discussion, so feel free to republish.  Show me up, why don't you.

      One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

      by Inland on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 10:28:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ignore them, my dear (0+ / 0-)

        you are arguing with a bar of soap. Just when you think you've reasoned with them, they slip away, and all common sense goes down the drain.

      •  Wrong. (4+ / 0-)
        The "interests" are just that: avoiding firearm restrictions, not finding alternative means of avoiding violence.
        You presume to tell us what our group is about?

        Ineffective gun control laws are not only useless, they cost Democrats at the polls. Our purpose is to persuade other liberals that there are more effective ways to accomplish the goal of reducing crime than to make it hard for law abiding Americans to own firearms. We want the same thing everyone else on this site wants: more and better Democrats. We believe supporting the entire Bill of Rights will help further that goal.

        No need to republish this--the tags ensure that it shows up on the group's page already.

        "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

        by happy camper on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 01:53:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I thought you would show me. You did. (0+ / 0-)

          I think it's presumptuous for either one of us to declare what the group is about: what the group is about is determined by what's written there.  For example, what's written in the title of the group.  As another

          Ineffective gun control laws are not only useless,
          is a good example of the priorities of the group.  The interests in reducing crime, violence, even in promoting the bill of rights and democrats, begins and ends with gun control laws.   Why pretend to anything else?  You're not ashamed all of the sudden, are you?

           

          One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

          by Inland on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 02:41:31 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You seem to misunderstand... (4+ / 0-)

            ...the very point you are quoting.

            Ineffective gun control laws are not only useless,
            I added the emphasis there for you.  You seem to be overlooking that particular word.

            The interests in reducing crime, violence, even in promoting the Bill of Rights and Democrats do not, as you state, begin and end with gun control laws.

            We are not interested, however, in promoting those that are ineffective -- laws which do nothing to, for instance, curb crime, but do hurt the electoral prospects of Democrats.

            Laws such as restricting the number of firearms one can purchase in a month, to cite just one example.  Such laws have never been shown to reduce crime, and are therefore ineffective.

            The only thing such laws do is to pointlessly restrict the rights of the law-abiding and give Republicans yet more ammunition in calling Democrats "gun-grabbers."

            Therefore, most of the RKBA group oppose such laws.  We do not oppose all gun-control laws.  In fact, I've never seen any member of this group state that there should be no restrictions whatsoever on firearm ownership, as you seem to be trying to imply.

            Claims that anyone is "ashamed" of anything are, therefore, simply erroneous.

            Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

            by theatre goon on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 02:55:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, that word is very important, (0+ / 0-)

              because it tells us that the writer considers gun control laws ineffective.  All of them.

              But if I misunderstood, please tell me which ones are effective in RKBA world and we'll work from there.

              *****

              Buehler?  Buehler?

              One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

              by Inland on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 03:02:18 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yes, the word is important. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                rockhound, oldpunk, PavePusher

                And, yes, you clearly misunderstood.

                As I pointed out, the opposition is to those laws which have been shown to be ineffective.

                One that has been shown to be effective is the NICS background check system -- at least, when states bother to obey it and keep the list of prohibited possessors up to date.  Even the dreaded NRA supports that one.

                Now, if you can restrain yourself from pointless little digs like "RKBA world," you might even find yourself in a meaningful discussion.

                Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

                by theatre goon on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 03:08:59 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  This person (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  theatre goon, oldpunk, PavePusher

                  has never shown interest in meaningful discussion.

                  "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

                  by happy camper on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 04:16:19 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Hope springs eternal. (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    happy camper, oldpunk, PavePusher

                    I responded as directly and reasonably as possible, and provided exactly what was asked for.

                    I try to engage in meaningful discussion as much as possible, even when those I'm trying to have a discussion with are not willing to do so.

                    But, you already knew all of that.

                    :-)

                    Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

                    by theatre goon on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 04:19:12 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Really? What has it effectively done? (0+ / 0-)

                  I'd be interested in hearing your idea of the effect it has had.

                  One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                  by Inland on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:37:29 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  NICS? (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    happy camper, PavePusher

                    It has helped to restrict access to firearms by those people legally prohibited from possessing them.

                    In other words, it has done exactly what it was intended to do.

                    Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

                    by theatre goon on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:44:37 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Sure. That's a tautology. (0+ / 0-)

                      A law assists in preventing what's prohibited.  So?  Don't you think that you should consider measuring by something that matters?  Like safety?  And measuring what "assists" is?

                      In sum I can't figure why you say "this is good but no more."

                      One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                      by Inland on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 02:03:49 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  No, that's not what it is. (0+ / 0-)

                        It is a law, which has been shown to actually do what it is intended to do.

                        Really, you should look up the word "tautology."

                        That's not what this is.

                        I know, it's a really big word, that you can try to hide behind -- but what happened here is that I supplied exactly what you asked for, and now you're trying to run away from it.

                        Nor did I say, ""this is good but no more."

                        Nothing even remotely like it, in fact.  So, once again, you are putting words into others mouths since you can't respond to what they actually said.

                        Yet another dishonest response on your part.  Really, when you have to constantly resort to falsehoods to support your stance, perhaps it's time to take another look at that stance.

                        Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

                        by theatre goon on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 02:19:12 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  But what was it intended to do? (0+ / 0-)

                          Let's make it easy by using the great example of licensing drivers.   The laws prohibiting driving withpout a license are intended to make sure certain people have a license.  So?

                          Unless there is some sort of meaningful test or criteria to receiving a license, the requirement of licensure has no relationship to anything of importance.  It's just one more piece of paperwork unless the license is tied to a test or a continuing safe driving record.

                          And of course, if the licensing only applies to some people, then it's clearly not meant to do much in terms of making driving safer.

                          So.  When you say that the law "works as intended", what is the value, the goal, that is reached by the law?  

                          Look, I'm just asking the questions.  Nobody is putting words in your mouth.  If my asking you about your own opnions is making you uncomfortable, I'll stop.  

                          One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                          by Inland on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:59:29 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  No, you trying to twist my words... (0+ / 0-)

                            ...into something I have not said, or your habit of simply crafting stances out of whole cloth to attribute to others, actively offends me.

                            Those are dishonest tactics and not worthy of any more response than this, pointing them out for what they are -- even as late as it is.

                            The whole, "Look, I'm just asking the questions" is a crock when Fox News does it, it's a crock when you do it.

                            And for someone who claims to not putting words into other's mouths, you certainly seem to do it quite often.

                            Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

                            by theatre goon on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 01:23:16 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Okay, sorry. How about your opinion now? (0+ / 0-)

                            I'm not even going to defend myself.  

                            How about putting it aside and taking this wonderful opportunity to give me your honest opinion, in your own words.

                            Now, I'll stop and let you proceed.

                            One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                            by Inland on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 03:57:34 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Why would I trust you... (0+ / 0-)

                            ...not to engage in the same tactics you so regularly engage in?

                            No, thank you -- I've tried to engage you in discussion too many times to only see you resort to the same tactics.

                            Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

                            by theatre goon on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 04:17:20 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's just giving your own opinion in own words. (0+ / 0-)

                            I'm at a loss to figure out why you decline.  It's what people do here, "trust" or not.  You've gone a bit down the road.  Why not complete your thought?

                            One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                            by Inland on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 08:57:33 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

              •  Again you are wrong. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                theatre goon, oldpunk, PavePusher
                it tells us that the writer considers gun control laws ineffective.  All of them.
                You insist not only on defining our group's goals, but in putting words in people's mouths. Of course, that way you can argue against what you claim was said, rather than what was said.

                "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

                by happy camper on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 04:20:51 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Heh. Don't you think that's a tad disingenuous? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  tytalus

                  I asked you to link what was said, and you didn't.  

                  I asked you to say if I misunderstood, and you don't bother.

                  I'm asking you to explain in your own words, but you'd rather pretend I'm stopping you somehow.

                  It's always curious to me when people have suchfind reasons to not state their own positions clearly and expressly.  

                  One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                  by Inland on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:41:34 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  You are either woefully ignorant.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theatre goon

        or lying.  

        And you've been in enough RKBA debates here that I know it's not the first option.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site