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View Diary: Dear Progressive Bay Area, Please STFU about Drakes Bay Oyster Farm. (318 comments)

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  •  I respect the information this article gave me, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DBunn, kurt

    but I am still not completely convinced.  What is wrong with integrating sustainable ag practices with wilderness? We have always gardened the universe.   There is a difference between oil leases and growing food in a sustainable way.

    On the other hand, I do see why it's important to simply have wilderness areas that are undeveloped.  

    "Since when did obeying corporate power become patriotic." Going the Distance

    by Going the Distance on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 02:32:35 PM PST

    •  The whole idea of wilderness (13+ / 0-)
      What is wrong with integrating sustainable ag practices with wilderness?
      is that we pick just a FEW bits that we DON'T garden.  Lord knows they are few enough.

      "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

      by lgmcp on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 02:40:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Slippery Slope . . . (a personal experience) (27+ / 0-)

      When the National Wild & Scenic River (NWSR) system was created, one of the first rivers designated was the Rogue River in southern Oregon.  About half of the designated stretch was on BLM land and half on Nat'l Forest land.  But there were several private inholdings and a few of them were commercial "fishing lodges."

      Now part of the designation of Wild & Scenic rivers relates to motorized boat traffic - which makes them particularly prized wilderness experiences for rafters and kayakers.  But because these for-profit lodges had brought in supplies and guests from down river via motorized boat prior to the designation, they were allowed to continue to do so - supposedly at the levels they had before the designation.

      As an aside, the property owners were still free to convey title and otherwise continue to derive economic benefit, but there were restrictions.  For example, while existing buildings could be repaired or replaced, the square footage and height could not change.  And, because of such restrictions, the property owners received financial compensation from the government (because of the "takings" clause in the Constitution).

      Fast forward about 20 years and those owners were using bigger boats (so-called "jet" boats) with much louder and more powerful engines and were seeking permission to change the Forest Service Management Plan to allow more (and more frequent) trips.  (Sightseeing trips would be pretty lucrative and difficult to monitor.  And, in the initial draft plan, they were all set to get their way - to hell with the solitude seeking folks in little people powered boats or the wildlife!

      Fresh out of law school (and awaiting my bar results here in CA), I drafted an administrative appeal to that decision (any citizen can appeal, there is no requirement that an actual lawyer be involved - but it sure helps to even have a sort of fetal-stage lawyer).  In the end, they "negotiated" a new agreement (upholding everything the rafters wanted and nothing the lodges wanted) for the river management.  We had one person working inside the Forest service locally who told us that the word came from Washington that, "under no circumstances" was that appeal to be allowed to get to court (where it might have effected other parts of the NWSR system).

      And that is the problem here.  Once the foot is in the door, it is difficult enough to just hold the line and fragile and precious wild places are too few.

      When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and the purity of its heart. - Emerson

      by foolrex on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 04:28:08 PM PST

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    •  Edward Abbey (11+ / 0-)

      "We have agreed not to drive our automobiles into cathedrals, concert halls, art museums, legislative assemblies, private bedrooms and the other sanctums of our culture; we should treat our national parks with the same deference, for they, too, are holy places."

      "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

      by high uintas on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 07:28:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  :-) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KenBee, RLMiller

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Fri Dec 07, 2012 at 07:58:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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