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View Diary: Markos: What Say You? "Off The Record" Meeting With Obama. (169 comments)

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  •  I'm not seeing the conflict (8+ / 0-)

    unless you are positing a quid pro quo.

    •  The already extreme reluctance of MSNBC (5+ / 0-)

      and other progresssive-leaning media outlets and blogs (including this one) to be too critical of Obama is all the quid pro quo I need. This might not meet the legal standard of such, but that's not how political analysis works.

      You're not seriously suggesting that the organized political left and left-leaning media hasn't taken it easy on Obama, are you?

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 09:38:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's not a quid pro quo (5+ / 0-)

        That is a preexisitng condition.

        They are not blind cheerleaders because of this meeting.

        MSNBC sucks at journalism, but it did before this meeting and not because of it.

        •  It is if it continues when there's valid (0+ / 0-)

          reason to believe or fear that it might not. Just because MSNBC was a cheerleader (for the most part) before the election doesn't mean that it'll continue to be one now and in the future. People change, as do media outlets.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 09:50:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  My gawd (6+ / 0-)

            You are really looking for reasons to object.

            Well, have at it.

            Don't forget to object to EVERY journalist, activist and persons, because they ALL have off the record conversations.

            •  One on one is one thing (0+ / 0-)

              But a group meeting? Reeks of an attempt to influence to me.

              "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

              by kovie on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 10:00:57 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Really? (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                subtropolis, gramofsam1, Zinman

                Group meeting is worse because what?

                That makes NO sense.

                •  Hmm, let's see (0+ / 0-)

                  A bunch of "us", and one of him, on his turf, in his position. Who's going to have more of an individual say in such a meeting? And did he really need to call this meeting to know what they were thinking, as if that weren't blindingly obvious?

                  I understand the need for such meetings from time to time, especially in times of real crisis, e.g. FDR during the Great Depression or WWII. This isn't one of those times, and certainly not from where he's coming from, which is Let's Make a Deal and Live to Not Fight Another Day. I have no way of proving it, but I have a hard time believing that the point of this meeting wasn't to shut down criticism from the left, which is his main fear now since no one's taking criticism from his right seriously anymore. Well, no one we should worry about, at least.

                  "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                  by kovie on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 10:23:07 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Probably (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    grrr, gramofsam1
                    And did he really need to call this meeting to know what they were thinking,
                    I don't know how you figure it's blindingly obvious what they are thinking. Many of them are not in a position to openly say what they are thinking, except in a setting like that.

                    "...you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem." Mitt Romney

                    by Catte Nappe on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 10:42:21 AM PST

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                  •  honest to god kovie, your view of Obama (0+ / 0-)

                    is as skewed as Red State's.  "He's going to kill Medicare" = "He's coming for our guns".  He's had 4 years to move on both non-issues.  Somehow Medicare is stronger and gun sales flourish.  

                    Or maybe he strengthened Medicare so it would die a more painful death?  Yeah, that's it!

                    Glenn Greenwald isn't a lefty, BTW.  He's a coward who moved to a safer place instead of putting his ass on the line and joining the battle.  If he's your source for inside info you're screwed.

                    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

                    by I love OCD on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 12:44:30 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  No, on this issue it's Krugman, Ezra (0+ / 0-)

                      and some guy at WaPo whose name I forgot. You want to call Krugman a coward and a paranoid nutjob, be my guest. It's your petard, not mine.

                      And here's the deal. I'd rather risk looking like a paranoid and cowardly nutjob that trust Obama or anyone blindly, because even if he has the country's best interests in mind and even if he's being as smart and tough as he thinks he needs to be, it doesn't mean that he does have the country's best interests in mind and is being as smart and tough as he needs to be. Even HE said "Make me do it".

                      Well, consider me one of the people trying to do that. And if your response to that is that I'm just a pathetic nobody that nobody listens to, then we have different notions of what a participatory democracy is about.

                      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                      by kovie on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 04:29:03 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

            •  WHAT?? Markos does NOT speak ... (0+ / 0-)

              exclusively for the community at DK, nor does anyone else without consensus.  At a minimum, he should have launched a poll or something and had a voter-nominated member accompany him.

              "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

              by Neuroptimalian on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 08:15:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  what constitutes the organized political left and (7+ / 0-)

        left-leaning media, and what does "taken it easy" mean to you?

        because leftys "taking it easy" on the prez hasn't been my experience.  quite the opposite.  maybe we're talking about different things.

        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

        by mallyroyal on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 09:43:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  MSNBC cheerleading is a given though (0+ / 0-)

          Right? I mean, that's pretty obvious.

          Obama can't given them anything to incentivize that though. That is a business strategy.

        •  I'm not part of the organized left (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mallyroyal

          but I and others have been critical of Obama from before he took office (as you well know), when and where we felt it was called for. But I'm talking about MSNBC, easily the most left-meaning major media outlet these days (sorry, The Nation and Mother Jones are not major), and this site, easily the most prominent left-leaning blog (again, apologies to Digby and Greenwald). And both have mostly given Obama (but not always Dems) the benefit of the doubt.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 09:55:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I will grant your point as regards the FP of dkos. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kovie, OIL GUY, mahakali overdrive

            This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

            by mallyroyal on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 09:59:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Actually, it has been critical of him (2+ / 1-)
              Recommended by:
              mallyroyal, mahakali overdrive
              Hidden by:
              kos

              Just not lately. I got how we needed to back off to avoid the Romneycalypse, but now that we're back to reality I'd like to see more critical distance. Even if you strongly disagree with the specifics, surely you can agree that speaking one's mind is essential to democracy no matter who's in office.

              "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

              by kovie on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 10:11:38 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I do agree. But you seem to have things divided (3+ / 0-)

                into "pro-Obama" vs "critical of Obama".  This frame seems a bit personal.  Sortof like characterizing people as "good" or "bad".

                Top politicians just aren't crusaders the way we might wish them to be.  Or they wouldn't be top politicians.  They have to make decisions that would scare the pants off most of us, they have to compromise and disappoint people, they have to win, etc.

                Imo we need action on sane policies, not so much cartoon heroes.  We should I think be pushing the ideas -- in the streets, etc -- not the goodness/badness of the players.

                Except for the evil Republicans, of course.

                •  I don't want to get too caught up in sematics (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  hooper, Agathena, Ginger1

                  But there are clearly Dems who aren't very critical of Obama, and those who are (when called for, as opposed to gratuitously). I think it's self-evident that in a functioning democracy you have to be critical of leaders when they do things you disapprove of, even if they're in your party. That's what I'm doing. People have every right to object to one's specific criticism, but not to the right to criticize.

                  And I don't think that Obama's a bad person, just someone with different views, priorities and tendencies from some of us on the left. Which we have every right and really obligation to air publically. We're just one more check and balance in a system meant to have multiple checks and balances to work properly.

                  "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                  by kovie on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:00:14 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree, kovie. I just wish we could focus more (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kovie

                    on getting what we want, rather than who's betraying whom this week. (Not that you're doing that.)

                    Just about all the big progressive victories came about because of people mobilizing, and that's what we should do, imo.  Instead we seem to like to elect someone then watch to see if they perform as we'd like, clapping or booing, as if they were gladiators and we're just the audience.  Like TV.

                    So while I'll criticize Obama like most of us if he doesn't get a good deal on taxes & Medicare, for example, I really think it's up to us.  Why aren't we mobilizing millions of people to push back the 1%?  Why do we accept that SS must be "saved" if we're lucky, rather than expanded so folks can actually live on it?  Why do we let the austerity freaks get away with it?  Why aren't people more active?

                    I don't know the answer, but I bet it's got something to do with the tube, as Orwell predicted.  

                    Best to you.

              •  Wow, kos, of all my comments (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Agathena

                THIS gets HRed by you? THIS comment is so beyond the pale, it must be hidden? Seriously? Even if you disagree, THIS is HRable? Wow, simply wow.

                "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                by kovie on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 06:20:36 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Obama is obviously working the refs. (0+ / 0-)

        MSNBC's shows have been critical of Obama at times (with the possible exception of Lawrence O'Donnell).  If by saying MSNBC has shown "extreme reluctance" to be "too critical of Obama" you mean they have not gone all Fox/Rush on him that may be, but I would not characterize it as taking it easy on Obama. MSNBC has called out many of Obama's failings in drones, torture, mortgage fraud, HAMP, Wall Street crimes, the Health Care bill, and much else. But I can't help note that when Obama is criticized over his lack of progressiveness, then that criticism seems invisible to conservatives and the MSM and to critics of MSNBC.  

        MSNBC has been the least respected network among the VSP and villagers since its inception, and this attitude has grown to outright contempt as MSNBC's  progressive agenda of presenting actual facts and calling out lies began getting traction. MSNBC folks earned the opportunity to be invited to sit at the biggest grown-up table in the world, and I trust they won't let it go to their head or diminish their brand.

        Marcos, on the other hand, had no qualms telling Obama critics to STFU in this last election, so if he was being lobbied then Obama was preaching to the converted.  The MSNBC crowd, not so much.

      •  Yes. Except for the last 6 months (and kudos to (0+ / 0-)

        them/us for getting their/our priorities straight) the left has been very critical of Obama.

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