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View Diary: Time to call the left pressure reserves (33 comments)

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  •  T&R for the call to arms, etc. however, I (7+ / 0-)

    cannot help but disagree that :

    2012 was a turning point election because the left has huge leverage and opportunity to be a force to society for the long-term.
    The mainstream Democartic party is as free and empowered to ignore and even attack the left as it always has been. The left has no leverage.

    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

    by enhydra lutris on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 03:41:44 PM PST

    •  what about congress? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WB Reeves, mindara

      what about state legislatures and governors? California won a democratic supermajority. Progressive leaders are being selected in the blue states such as Illinois and Colorado.

      Conservatives have said "The Age of Reagan is dead".

      •  They will do what they wish to do, not (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoasis, nchristine, tardis10

        necessarily wht progressives want them to do. If there is a happy coincidence, cool, if not, then it sucks, but the left has no club and no power. I am represented by a Democrat who ran on the necessity for bipartisanship and compromise. This in the Area Area, next door to Barbara Lee, where nobody can claim that one has to be a Blue Dog in order to get elected, but one ran and won all the same.

        That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

        by enhydra lutris on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 03:57:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not sure what this proves (0+ / 0-)

          Did a progressive run in the primary against them? We all know that not every Dem could be described as left or even progressive. You say that there's no reason to run as a Blue Dog in your district, so why no progressive insurgent challenge?

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 04:13:15 PM PST

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          •  New district, top 2 primary, Stark v newbie, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WB Reeves

            newbie won.

            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

            by enhydra lutris on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 04:46:10 PM PST

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            •  What was Stark's orientation? N/T (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              enhydra lutris

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 04:47:40 PM PST

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              •  Old, liberal, attacked for age and other things (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                WB Reeves

                more than based on liberal ideology.

                That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                by enhydra lutris on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:39:42 PM PST

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                •  So not a progressive alternative? (0+ / 0-)

                  I'm trying figure out why, if being a Blue Dog isn't necessary in your district, you ended up without an effective progressive alternative.

                  Nothing human is alien to me.

                  by WB Reeves on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:46:03 PM PST

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                  •  I must not be communicating very well or (0+ / 0-)

                    you must not be getting what I'm saying. Stark was progressive. It was not a progressive v. Blue Dog campaign, the conservadems attacked Stark on other grounds, with press support. The GOP voters and libertoons, natch, would've voted for the Blue Dog as well as conservadems.

                    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                    by enhydra lutris on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 09:58:41 PM PST

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                    •  Ok, so Sparks was a progressive (0+ / 0-)

                      and there were enough RWs and Conservadems in your district to give a majority to the Blue Dog.

                      Have I got it right?

                      Nothing human is alien to me.

                      by WB Reeves on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 10:27:36 PM PST

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                      •  Not completely, but I doubt you ever will. (0+ / 0-)

                        That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                        by enhydra lutris on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 09:08:43 AM PST

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                        •  That doesn't seem very candid (0+ / 0-)

                          In fact, it sounds rather elitist.

                          Nothing human is alien to me.

                          by WB Reeves on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 10:48:13 AM PST

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                          •  You have an idea and won't let go of it, but (0+ / 0-)

                            the facts probably aren't simple enough. Here's an example:

                            Candidate A is pro-choice, it is well known and is in his campaign literature.

                            Candidate B is anti-choice, also known but less widely because he is a newbie. His campaign literature says so.

                            Much evidence over many yars indicates that the district is significantly pro-choice.

                            Candidate A campaigns against B on the grounds that B is crooked, engages in pay-to-play at his current position, is beholden to specific special interests and is inexperienced.

                            Candidate B campaigns on the grounds that  A is old, senile, frequently absent from DC but also almost never in his district, that he is making false charges out of desperation, etc.

                            The press supports B, skewing its reportage and editorializing on his behalf.

                            B wins. B is anti-choice, but that is an accident. The campaign was not about choice and is not a referendum as to choice.

                            B did not have to adopt an anti-choice position in order to be elected. He could have been elected, and maybe would've even had a greater margin if he had been pro-choice.

                            Now, change pro and anti choice to a whole bundle of positions that resolve to liberal/progressive and blue dog and go back through the exercise.

                            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                            by enhydra lutris on Sun Dec 09, 2012 at 01:54:39 PM PST

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                          •  Thanks very much (0+ / 0-)

                            for taking time to flesh out the situation for me. It sounds as though Sparks was pretty much out gunned. I appreciate your effort.

                            Still, it isn't at all clear to me how this local case supports your larger assertions regarding "leverage" or the Dems ignoring their Left base. Perhaps, as you suggest, I just don't "get it."

                            Nothing human is alien to me.

                            by WB Reeves on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 01:02:12 PM PST

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                          •  No, this case is actually just a digression, (0+ / 0-)

                            outside or the lack of leverage thing. I don't recall why I tossed it in there.

                            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                            by enhydra lutris on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 01:08:27 PM PST

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                          •  OK then (0+ / 0-)

                            that explains it.

                            Nothing human is alien to me.

                            by WB Reeves on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 05:05:00 PM PST

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      •  Good [points (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoasis

        but if the left insists on being irrelevant it will come to naught.

        Nothing human is alien to me.

        by WB Reeves on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 03:59:41 PM PST

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    •  If the left has no leverage (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, nchristine

      it is only because it hasn't the wit to seize it.

      Nothing human is alien to me.

      by WB Reeves on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 03:57:09 PM PST

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      •  Uh, nope. We have nowhere else to go and (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nchristine, Neuroptimalian

        the DNC knows it.

        That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

        by enhydra lutris on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 04:44:16 PM PST

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        •  The DNC (0+ / 0-)

          also knows that the recent election wins were based on a broadly progressive coalition of African Americans, Latinos, Asian Americans, LGBTs and progressive whites. It was by mobilizing these folks to vote that they won.

          Further, the elections produced some genuine advances at the state level with the success of local initiatives on Marriage Equality and Marijuana
          Legalization/decriminalization.

          It isn't question of such folks having no place to go, it's question of supplying them with a motivation to vote. That can't be accomplished without empowering them both in terms of policies adopted and autonomous political action.

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:05:25 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, they have a motivation to vote and (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WB Reeves

            regularly do so, but, they also have no clout. We have seen this in election after election, they are, to at least a slight degree, courted for their cash contributions, volunteer hours and votes and then stiffed after the elections (Federal level.) You seem the same pattern over the past few decades with labor too. At the federal level it has been the same with the gays until the last couple of years and even there the change was wrt to repeal  DADT which had a ton of popular support and bipartisan support.

            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

            by enhydra lutris on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 05:44:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  So you don't think (0+ / 0-)

              there was any difference in turnout between this year and say 2011? You don't think that popular mobilizations like Wisconsin and OWS had any impact?

              It seems to me that the RW and the GOP based their expectations for the 2012 elections on similar assumptions. They assumed that 2010 was an aberration and that the old pattern of turnout would reassert itself. Hence the disarray on the Right in the wake of their defeat.

              Democratic prospects for 2014 and beyond depend on consolidating and maintaining their new level of turnout. That isn't going to happen if they simply return to business as usual. Not that it's impossible that they could delude themselves on this point, which is why it is necessary to make the consequences of doing so apparent to them now.  

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 06:01:38 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You seem to confuse the left voting Dem (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                WB Reeves, tardis10

                with the left having clout within the party.  The left votes Dem because the alternative is horrible to think about. End of story. The party kinows that, hence the left has no leverage. End of story.

                That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                by enhydra lutris on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 10:02:21 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Implicit in your argument (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  tardis10

                  is the idea that the Dems either don't care if the Left votes for them, or alternately, they believe that the Left will vote for them no matter what they do.

                  As I indicated above, either is a possibility but do you think these are accurate assumptions?

                  Or is that the Dems don't care enough about winning future elections that they're uninterested in keeping the coalition that makes winning possible intact?

                  Nothing human is alien to me.

                  by WB Reeves on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 10:53:50 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  My two cents? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    WB Reeves

                    The Democratic Party believes the "left" will vote for them because the have nowhere else to go. As for your last paragraph,I believe the Dem Party isn't uninterested but rather is short-sighted about what it is going to take to keep that coalition intact.

                    "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

                    by tardis10 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 at 11:11:37 PM PST

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