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View Diary: Never Cry Wolf - A Pack of Lies (188 comments)

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  •  ok. (0+ / 0-)

    there's no convincing the true ideologue.  Yes, wolves do get empty stomachs sometimes.  This is utterly irrelevant.  It is DEMOSTRATED FACT that they also eat rodents, frequently in large quantities.  So far we've got zero evidence for any other state of affairs.

    Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

    by Mindful Nature on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 03:15:14 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Was Mowat full of shit? (0+ / 0-)

      It's an easy question and the diarist has presenteded evidence to back his assertion. You have nothing except a scientific article that backs Ban Nock. What is it that you are doing? It seems like you are trolling a diary to me.

      •  Probably (0+ / 0-)

        he cited to a Salon.com article that describes someone (Goddard) who contests Mowat's assertions.  He's probably right.

        Ban nock never presented any evidence on the biology at issue, and what I presented demonstrates that Ban nock's comment that it is complete fiction that wolves eat rodents is false.

        Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

        by Mindful Nature on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 03:37:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Read what Ban Nock wrote again (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tom Seaview

          "The greatest lie was that wolves live mostly on small rodents, when every wolf researcher in the world knows wolves eat large prey. Caribou, moose, elk, deer, even beaver for the rich fat supplies, but living on rodents, pure fiction."

          You are arguing with a straw man of your own constrction and the two scientific abstracts you linked support Ban Nock. Please give it a break. You're wrong.

          •  please (0+ / 0-)

            indicate ANY evidence for this assertion:

            , but living on rodents, pure fiction."

            Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

            by Mindful Nature on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 03:56:31 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  yea the articles you linked (0+ / 0-)

              Obviously they are supplementing or augmenting their diets with rodents, but they are not living on rodents any more than they are living on carrion or trash. When 75% of your diet is cervids and wild boar that is what youare "living o" on. Go argue with yourself. You don't like hunting and like ibeing argumentative. You should be embarrassed.

              I can't help you until you want to help yourself.

              •  very good (0+ / 0-)

                Yes, that's in Tibet and Latvia, when there are cervids or boars available.

                But what do you suppose happens when there are no cervids or boars around, and only rats?  I guess they just starve because Mowat is full of bullshit?

                Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

                by Mindful Nature on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 05:34:15 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  This diary is bait (3+ / 1-)
        Recommended by:
        wordwraith, Kay Observer2, bluedust
        Hidden by:
        Kenevan McConnon

        You and the diarist are pack hunting people who disagree with you.

        The wolf killings in Yellowstone have nothing to do with Mowatt.

        This diary is a cowardly attack on the diary on wolf killing on the Yellowstone boundary.

        Cowardly.

        If Ban Nock had an ounce of integrity he would directly criticize the diary on the wolf killing.

        Instead he trolls this bait like a Montana rancher leaving prey kill just over the park boundary.

        Disgusting.

        Your argumentation is utterly disingenuous.

        look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

        by FishOutofWater on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 05:20:37 PM PST

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        •  Bullshit (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kenevan McConnon, ban nock

          Arguing from a fact based arena is always better than basing ideologies on fairy dust.

          I read Never Cry Wolf and had no idea I was being snookered. It pisses me off to be lied to but I don't take it out on the person who points out the lie.

          "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

          by high uintas on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:42:53 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Of course they eat rodents (4+ / 0-)

      They also primarily eat elk in the context of Yellowstone:

      Wolves in YNP feed primarily on elk, despite the presence of other ungulate species. Patterns of prey selection and kill rates in winter have varied seasonally each year from 1995 to 2004 and changed in recent years as the wolf population has become established. Wolves select elk based on their vulnerability as a result of age, sex, and season and therefore kill primarily calves, old cows, and bulls that have been weakened by winter. Summer scat analysis reveals an increased variety in diet compared with observed winter diets, including other ungulate species, rodents, and vegetation...

      As most of our information on wolf kills comes from winter data, kill rates and prey selection are less known in summer. Current studies exploring this aspect of wolf predation are under way, but preliminary evidence indicates that wolf kill rates decrease as much as 25% in the summer (D. Smith and D. Stahler, Yellowstone Wolf Project, unpublished data). One indication of the seasonal differences in wolf foraging patterns is through an analysis of summer wolf scats. Scat analysis shows that summer diets are more diverse and include smaller prey species such as rodents, birds, and invertebrates, as well as ungulates, otherwise absent in the winter. Analyses of summer scats in 2003 show that mule deer was present in 133 (25%) of 530 scats analyzed. In addition, plant matter is prevalent in wolves' summer diet, with 392 (74%) of 530 scats analyzed containing some type of plant material, largely grass (Graminae).  http://jn.nutrition.org/...

      I think we can all agree that wolves are adapted to hunt and eat primarily ungulates that are larger than they are, but are opportunistic and will eat what they can when stressed.   Seems a little off-topic since the diary is about Farley Mowatt.  What is not said, but what this diary is largely about, is how wolves should be managed - whether they should be managed according to ranchers and grazing interests, people who like to shoot predators, or the general public.

       

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 04:21:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  you are close but not there as you can't mind read (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        happy camper, Tom Seaview

        This post is about not using an emotional and scientifically untrue basis to manage wolves. The general public has been misinformed by polemicists such as Mowat who are willing to use information that is untrue to skew how we manage wildlife and predators in particular.

        Wildlife management is dictated mostly by scientists, not ranchers, not uninformed lay people, not hunters or the HSUS.  Most states have a commission appointed by the legislature that makes decisions about wildlife informed by their scientists. Legislatures and commissions are influenced by publicity. For best outcomes I wish for scientists working at divisions of wildlife to dictate wildlife management as much as possible. They usually do a very good job if left to their own devices.

        When a large number of people interested in wildlife have been misinformed it makes it very hard for scientists to do their work.

        Wildlife management should be done by scientists guided by sound scientific principals.

        How big is your personal carbon footprint?

        by ban nock on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 05:23:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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