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View Diary: More on Section 4 of the 14th Amendment and the debt ceiling (45 comments)

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  •  So not paying Federal workers (3+ / 0-)
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    Armando, J M F, nextstep

    ... including the sainted troops, could be an emergency measure the president would be forced into if Congress tries to take the debt hostage again.  Wonder how that would play out in public opinion?

    Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

    by Dallasdoc on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 06:31:27 AM PST

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    •  My point is (4+ / 0-)
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      Dallasdoc, J M F, furi kuri, profh

      the unconstitutionality of the game the GOP is playing and what the Constitution would require the PResident to do in response should be a part of the conversatio right now.

      The President's team is misplaying this point imo.

      •  You're right, but only to a certain point. (1+ / 0-)
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        cynndara

        Faithfully executing the provision of the 14th Amendment that you cite is somewhat of an esoteric issue shrouded in legalese to the common folk. Not having money to pay the troops, or send out SS checks, because of a R tantrum, not so much.

        Rather than hanging our hat on legal principles, I like your "line item veto" analysis of the situation:

        Debt limit not increased? Fine. Prioritize payments from the money we do have - pay troops, SS recipients - stiff weapons manufacturers, agribusiness welfare, oil and gas subsidies. "Poke" the crisis by shutting down public access to parks, for example, or mail service over a period of time.

        That'll bring them back to the table agreeing to pay the bills they themselves approved, imho.

        “I’m able to fly, do what I want, essentially. I guess that’s what freedom is — no limits.” Marybeth Onyeukwu -- Dreamer.

        by chuco35 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:05:29 AM PST

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      •  Congress is in the habit of passing (0+ / 0-)

        un-Constitutional laws. Think DOMA and DADT, just recently.

        I suspect that one reason they can be so cavalier about the Constitutionality of the laws they pass is that they don't expect the law to be enforced against themselves and their friends. It's only sucker Democrats, goodie-two-shoes that obey the law, regardless. In other words, the law, by the "rule of law" gang, is just another mechanism to insure dominance. The law is their familiar because it lets them deprive others of their welfare and even their lives without leaving any fingerprints. The law is just another tool in their aresenal of weapons to subdue people they don't like.

        We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

        by hannah on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:43:39 AM PST

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        •  Which is exactly (1+ / 0-)
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          hannah

          why the rank-and-file Republicans, Tea Partiers, and rednecks are all for drowning the government in a bathtub.  They KNOW that the law is a tool of dominance by the rich bastards, so they'd just as soon be rid of it.

    •  It wont be popular. But that is the law. nt (1+ / 0-)
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      Armando
      •  Look It Badman. (0+ / 0-)

        There is indeed a shit load of fat in our budget, from aircraft we don't need, to checks we write to big business for stuff we can do without. As Armando well points out, freezing the debt ceiling would give Obama a free hand to direct the use of federal funds as he sees fit, only to those targets that are worthy, for example,  and not to those that are nothing but sops, or to use against scumbag Rs -- such as freezing funds for projects in KY, TX, parts of IL.

        Line item veto in the hands of Obama? With the justification of saving the country from an R tantrum? Hard for me to ask for more.

        “I’m able to fly, do what I want, essentially. I guess that’s what freedom is — no limits.” Marybeth Onyeukwu -- Dreamer.

        by chuco35 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:15:26 AM PST

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