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View Diary: Are talks between Obama and Boehner already breaking down? (194 comments)

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  •  Boehner's in a box called Tea Party... (24+ / 0-)

    and it limits his action and is slowly robbing him of oxygen.

    Fortunately, Obama isn't in a box, no matter how desperately some liberals want to put him in one.  He still has freedom of movement and decision.

    In the end, Boehner is not going to be able to offer Obama anything realistic.  Even just TALKING to Obama has earned him a threatened "fire Boehner" movement and talk of a primary.

    Tax and Spend I can understand. I can even understand Borrow and Spend. But Borrow and give Billionaires tax cuts? That I have a problem with.

    by LiberalCanuck on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 12:02:31 PM PST

    •  Even the tea party will back down when (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, captainlaser, Mayfly, defluxion10

      Wall Street tells then that their credit cards are going to be shut off.

      I have never been able to figure out if Fox is the propaganda arm of the Republican party or is the Republican Party the political subsidiary of Fox.

      by Dave from Oregon on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 12:34:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, it's kabuki. Notice how chummy Boner is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Subterranean, TheDuckManCometh

      with Obama in pics and video? I have never seen the guy look even remotely confrontational around the president. If I didn't now better I'd say they were pals. The wingnuts have Boehner by the short hairs and he's gotta toe the line. He and Obama are probably talking sports in the meetings, then he takes his prepared script that he's already covered w/ Obama and pretends the 'talks' aren't going well.

      If I knew it was going to be that kind of party, I'd have stuck my ---- in the mashed potatoes! - Paul's Boutique

      by DoctorWho on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 01:06:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Boehner's Speaker of the House for crying out loud (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      More Questions Than Answers

      --not in a box.

    •  Boehner is a pawn (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Subterranean, vigilant meerkat

      He's served his purpose, which was to put a moderate face on the Republican caucus and make it look like Obama had tamed them.

      There is no difference between the 'baggers and the normal Republicans. As long as Boehner was Speaker, we could pretend that there was. They were playing possum all this time, in order to facilitate Obama's reelection.

      This is the last thing Boehner will do in his political career: he will agree to this Grand Bargain, take all the heat from the GOP base for daring to raise taxes, and expend the last of his political capital rounding up the votes of enough lame-duck Republicans and GOP moderates to get this bill passed.

      He can retire to a cushy sinecure where he'll be really rich and have plenty of time to relax and golf. It's not a sacrifice for him to be the fall guy for this, as people think. I'm sure he's pretty sick of politics, anyhow.

      Then Cantor can be Speaker. And the Republicans, who seemed so docile, will spring to life, now that Obama has let the wolf in the door, just as unified and fanatical and obstructionist as they ever were.

      And to Democrats' dismay, Obama is going to be far, far more cooperative with Cantor than he ever was with Boehner. He will do nothing to oppose--may even chide Democrats for opposing them.

      Obama's need to strike an adversarial pose against the GOP ended with his reelection. It's Grand Bargain time for the next four years, with a Republican caucus that will soon be free to show its true, extremist colors.

      "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

      by limpidglass on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 02:15:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow. Um, I'm no O******t, but I gotta say, (2+ / 0-)

        that's way more cynical than I'm willing to sign off on.

        In particular, the Republicans did not deliberately get Obama re-elected. That's just frigging silly.

        And the idea of Obama being friendlier with Cantor than with Boehner? Also just silly. To the extent that Boehner gives Obama cover to “compromise” and thereby get the policy he wants (this is a level of cynicism I'm much more comfortable with), that only works because Boehner is at least superficially not as nutso as the GOP base. Wouldn't work with Cantor.

        Finally, if anything, Obama always seemed to be working from the assumption that striking an adversarial pose was a bad thing for electoral politics. Hope'n'change and all that. Given that he's been taking harder stances ever since he was re-elected, it's hard for me to reconcile that with the idea that he'll be lovey-dovey now that he's safe.

        Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
        Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
        Code Monkey like you!

        Formerly known as Jyrinx.

        by Code Monkey on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 02:52:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  oh, there's no malice in it at all (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vigilant meerkat

          Obama thinks he's doing it for our own good. He buys into the voodoo economics bit about how Medicare and SS are bankrupting America, and he's determined to prune them back and bring America back to fiscal health.

          Didn't Sun Tzu once say something about how a general must sometimes deceive his allies in order to achieve his goals? I'm sure Obama justifies his deceptions to himself in the same way.

          He justifies his little ploy in terms of the greater good. In his mind, since the Democratic base isn't going to voluntarily make the hard choice to slash Medicare/SS, he must trick them into doing it, for their own good.

          His pretending to be adversarial towards the GOP was a necessary evil for him to win a second term--to convince the base that he would be tougher. Now he's safely reelected, and can dispense with that pose since he will never be running again. He's free to be as bipartisan as he wants to be--which is a lot, if you listen to how often he talks about it.

          Again, I'm sure the justification is something like "I'll be able to do so much good in my second term, that will more than make up for my having to tell this little lie now."

          It's precisely because he's absolutely free of malice that he can accomplish what Bush could not and take an axe to the New Deal. If there were an ounce of malice in him, he would arouse tremendous resistance. But since there isn't, he can advance unopposed.

          "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

          by limpidglass on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 03:26:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Which box do you mean that liberals (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vigilant meerkat

      want to put Obama in?

      I assume you have a box for Obama just as much as me. Would you approve of Obama signing off on the Ryan Medicare plan as part of a deal? No? WHY ARE YOU PUTTING HIM IN A BOX??

      More to the point, if you don't realize how disastrous raising the Medicare age to 67 would be (both in politics and in policy), you're delusional. And if you do realize that, well, that's what the box is for: Making sure the President realizes it, too. Finally, if you think it's impossible that Obama would consider it (as admittedly he wouldn't consider the Ryan Medicare plan) … well, you've gotta hope there's a whole lot of incorrect rumormongering going on that Obama doesn't care to correct.

      Code Monkey like freedom / Code Monkey like peace and justice too
      Code Monkey very nerdy man / With big warm fuzzy bleeding heart
      Code Monkey like you!

      Formerly known as Jyrinx.

      by Code Monkey on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 02:45:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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