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View Diary: Sex with Someone Who's Sleeping is Rape (104 comments)

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  •  well, yes and no (1+ / 0-)
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    FourthOfJulyAsburyPark

    I've been on the other side of it.  I think in a long-term relationship like marriage there are gray areas.  You wake up in the middle of the night and your partner has a nice erection, sometimes it's fun to start something.  Sometimes he would wake up, sometimes not, but he never complained.  Granted, that wasn't intercourse, intercourse would have woke him up for sure, but a handjob or oral counts as sex.  On the other hand, there was no risk of getting him pregnant!

    First off, I want to say that your old boyfriend of course was an abusive jerk and you were well rid of him.  I see three possibilities:

    1.  He was having sex with you knowingly while you slept and not worrying about getting you pregnant.  This is a terrible violation.

    2.  He had a serious sleep disorder, similar to sleepwalking.  Some people have this, they do all sorts of crazy things in their sleep.  Sleep sex is quite common in these people.  And his bizarre reaction to your pregnancy seems to indicate this possibility.

    3.  He has a kink for unconscious women and he was actually drugging you and having sex with you.  I find it remarkable that you never woke up during intercourse, and have to suspect that he was slipping something into your drink.  That would be taking criminal risks with your health.  This possibility fits in with his controlling, abusive personality.

    •  but would you penetrate a sleeping sex partner? (1+ / 0-)
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      FourthOfJulyAsburyPark

      (with a toy if you lack the needed equipment)...it might be different

      not sure but I think rape is defined as penetration only (of someone who didn't or couldn't consent). For many people,men as well as women, penetration can be a more vulnerable thing.

      I get your point in a long term relatioship some things may be implicitly and/or blanketly consented to.

    •  Well I've had other lovers and some of them have (1+ / 0-)
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      Avilyn

      woken me up for sex, not infrequently starting in a half dream state. I think it's a little bit different, although its hard to explain to a third party where the line is. Of course, when in doubt, talking beats getting you're lover upset. I can remember touching my husbands penis in the middle of the night. Sometimes he'd mutter, "No." and I'd let it go. Sometimes he'd reach out and pull me towards him. Sometimes he's be very asleep and didn't wake up, at which point I'd forget about it. He did similar things to me at night. But when he perceived that my interest wasn't there, or I wasn't going to wake up, he'd stop. And, most importantly, he was perfectly capable of saying, "Last night I wanted to do xyz, but I wasn't sure how you'd feel about it so I didn't." Then I could say, thanks for not doing that or, "Oh, that would have been nice, go ahead next time." Like they say to little kids, "Use your words."

      •  see, I went further than you (0+ / 0-)

        if my partner didn't wake up.  I don't think we ever discussed it, but there were enough times when he waked and was a happy participant that I never thought anything of it.

        After reading some of your other comments about what a sound sleeper you are, I really do think this was a case of a sleep disorder in the worst-case scenario.  The two things that make me think your boyfriend had this sleepwalking type of sleep disorder are that he had zero memory of it, to the point of his bizarre freakout about your pregnancy, and that he was able to perform when he couldn't when he was awake (some ED is caused by anxiety, pressure to perform).  Most women would wake up midway, and then he would know he had a problem, but with you sleeping through it, it was a bad situation.

        NOT that I'm defending him, he's a huge jerk and you were well rid of him, but this sounds more like an illness than a crime to me.  Some people who are like that attack their spouses violently in their sleep, some have even killed them. It's quite a serious disorder and can be very hazardous to the sleeper and those around him.

        •  No, I'm wrong, my apologies (4+ / 0-)
          One morning, I woke up with semen between my legs. At first he denied having done anything. Finally, after a little "talk" he promised to not do it again. It happened several more times. He insisted that I enjoyed it even though I was asleep.
          So he was aware he was doing it.  Super creepy.  Certainly after you told him to cut it out and he continued to do it, it's definitely rape.
          •  Yes, I was about to say that. He did admit to it. (1+ / 0-)
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            Avilyn

            I think it was partly what you said in possibility number three. I left out some of the details, but he had some real sexual dysfunction. He really liked sex to be as close to motionless as possible. It had to be really calm, smooth and predictable or he would lose his erection. Everything revolved around him not losing his erection. If I wasn't the sort of person who gets aroused very easily, this probably wouldn't have been workable. There were moments, early on when I worried that he might have a bit of a kink for unconscious women, because that's how still he liked me to be. So, we have a combination in which he doesn't need a lot of rough thrusting to get off, just gentle penetration, and I sleep like a log.

            He probably didn't drug me. That I think would be one step too far even for him. As I understand it, those drugs mainly work with alcohol and he and I rarely drank at home. If that happening coincided with drinking, I would have picked it up very quickly.

            One of the reasons for telling this story in the manner I did was to point out exactly how complicated and hard to figure out any given situation might be.

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