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View Diary: Sex with Someone Who's Sleeping is Rape (104 comments)

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  •  Okay, that I understand (3+ / 0-)

    If you've had thorough talks and established rules beforehand (and you know for sure they still count), of course, that's perfectly alright. It really was the wording about mutual enjoyment that made me respond.

    •  Note that such "pre-granted consent" (1+ / 0-)
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      is not only morally problematic (more on that in just a second), but is outright illegal in many jurisdictions.  For example, in a famous case in Canada, the supreme court ruled that an event, which began as a woman consenting to be strangled during sex, who then passed out, sex continued, she came to, and consented to the continuance of sex, was rape during the time she was unconscious.

      The problem is that a person may be just fine with having sex at a given point in time but that doesn't mean they're always going to be fine with it.  I mean, are we to believe that because a person gave consent to be F*ed in their sleep at some point in the distant past, who then, say 2 years later, gets into a fight and is furious at their significant other, goes to sleep, and then wakes up to them F*ing them uninvited, that that's "consent"?

      No.  It's not.

      •  That's why I said (1+ / 0-)
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        that you need to know those rules you made still count. Such consent is not something I'd want to give anyone, even a trusted husband, but I can understand couples who have had serious lengthy discussions to establish this want to go ahead with "sleep sex" - whatever pleases them if it's not harmful, fine.

        BUT, in cases like the one you stated, that's obviously rape however one looks at it. An unconscious person can't consent, of course, and I'm doubting the woman established the specific rule beforehand that when she passes out from strangulation he can keep on going. Even if she did, it's a supremely disgusting and sickening thing for a man to do and according to the law, it'd still be a crime because verbal/written agreements between couples aren't exactly legally binding, of course.

        I would never give blanket consent for sex when I'm not awake - but I get that some people can be thorough in their talks and have fixed rules about these things. None of my business. But it's a seriously slippery slope, I agree. When a couple were having a fight and he waited to f*ck her until she was asleep - that's rape in my eyes as well as in the law's (even if they'd established that specifically he could have sex with her in her sleep even after a fight). If a woman feels violated during or after the act, it's rape, end of story. Even if you had some kind of agreement beforehand.

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