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View Diary: 5 progressive stations drop; Rush audience down; radio industry suffers BIG revenue, reputation woes (59 comments)

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  •  I mostly disagree with your comments, Boodaddy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    but i thank you for sharing your perspective. I'm glad that you've offered your perspective over the past few weeks.

    I don't have the goal of debasing radio. I am a fan of radio when it entertains and serves the public good. When i was a pre-teen, i was a short wave listener and listened to stations from all over the world. Radio can be magic. But it can also be dreary, corporate, abusive, partisan, and self-serving.

    As for "a dent", well, time will tell.

    Follow me on Twitter: @denverunionguy

    by Richard Myers on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 04:52:14 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  You don't understand us at all (0+ / 0-)

      Look, I get that you are no fan of the industry. There are many things I don't like. But what I take offense is your uninformed take on it. Almost everything you wrote for the past few weeks were based on half truths, misleading, disrespectful of our industry's history, and really doesn't capture what we do.

      You can write radio all you want but unless you know the players, the history, how it works, the real nature of the problems and the various mechanisms involved, you're writing speculative and uninformed garbage.

      As for you putting a dent, I guarantee you that you won't. There have been many who have tried and failed. You'll just be another one who thinks they are bigger than they really are.

      •  You believe that someone must (0+ / 0-)

        "know the players, the history, how it works, the real nature of the problems and the various mechanisms involved" before they can offer an opinion on Rush Limbaugh?

        Follow me on Twitter: @denverunionguy

        by Richard Myers on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 05:07:24 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  He's one guy in the industry (0+ / 0-)

          There are thousands of us - a lot of us who have different views - who work in radio. A lot of good and hard working people who entertain millions in different formats and dayparts everyday. You have been trying to equate a whole industry to the workings of one man.

          Do you still feel that you're so great? Do you feel that your mission means something? All you're doing is piling on a guy who was severely weakened before you showed up. You haven't lead anything.

          You have a right to an opinion on him. But haven't been doing that lately. Lately, you feel that you have the knowledge to report on a whole industry that you're not qualified to speak on. You don't know our problems. You don't know our history. All you been doing is pointing at the words of others and making claims about how horrible we are. Analyzing what you don't know makes you a hack.

          Like I said, you have a right to speak on your feelings on one guy. But feelings about him aren't knowledge of an industry. An industry that has taken on water for many other reasons.

          •  So then RadioInfo is also a "hack" (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Leslie Salzillo, potatohead, mrsgoo

            for their headline that the reputation of the radio industry is "tarnished" (their word, not mine)?

            To use your words, they are "equat[ing] a whole industry to the workings of" one DJ team that pulled an awful prank.

            I'm curious -- do you heckle them for their articles and headlines when they express criticism?

            Oh, that "guy who was severely weakened" pulls a salary of $38 million dollars a year. Some "weakness".

            And he continues to spew hate over 600 radio stations. I don't consider him "weak", and i don't feel sorry for him in any way.

            I'm not a hack. I'm a blogger. And what you see here is blogging, for better or for worse. Some seem to believe these blog posts are a worthwhile contribution. The last five in a row have attained "Recommended" status, so it seems that some others besides me do not agree with you.

            Follow me on Twitter: @denverunionguy

            by Richard Myers on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 05:38:47 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You're nobody. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              I'm sorry you can't stand the truth about who you think you are. The truth is that you don't know this business. You have no clue as to who we are and what we do. You are being disrespectful to me by reporting on an industry - that I love and respect - without portfolio.

              And yes, Rush is weakened. He lost a lot of people a lot of money. There are stations that have changed formats with good people losing their jobs because of him. Stations have gone dark. There are advertisers that won't even bother advertising in radio because of him. Progressive stations have been cut as a result of his bullshit. You think because he makes 40 million he's blameless or harmless in this. Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.

              As for his stations, they have nowhere else to go. The talent pool - if you knew anything about radio - is pretty weak. It's him and Ryan Seacrest.

              I don't feel sorry for him. From what I know about him, his life sucks. You be amazed how a lot of radio personalities real persona's don't reflect their radio realities.

              So you actually think you mean something because you get a "Recommend" in this space, you are some kind of big deal, you are delusional. It's the blind leading the blind.

              As for RadioInfo, the problems of the industry have been going on for decades. Sorry to burst your bubble, we have been "tarnished" for decades. Yet, we are still here entertaining millions. Millions more than what your "recommended" postings get.

              •  you twit (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                i've been writing about RW talk radio here for 6 years with barely a heartbeat of response. before sandra fluke the references to limbaugh were maybe one a month- while talk radio was kicking left ass all over the place.

                then richard came along with regular well written diaries keeping up with what was happening relative to limbaugh and  RW radio. now there might be half a dozen references to limbaugh a day. and that is the best indicator of the demise of the GOP there is. it was big the last election, getting out the women's vote and activists, and just outing RW radio, it's liars, and the army of idiots it has created, often called teabagers.

                there's a lot missing but if you're in the industry why the fuck don't you get more constructive relative to RW radio?

                This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                by certainot on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 08:28:13 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You don't know jack genius (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  I actually have a job in radio. I'm not some hack blogger who think he knows radio because he listens to it. I actually have a job and know what's up. You clearly don't.

                  Richard diaries are misleading and half truths mixed in. He has no knowledge of my business. Clearly, you don't either.

                  Here's a tip wannabe...

                  Radio owners don't care about ideology. They care about advertising revenue. Who ever brings in the most bucks, wins the time slot. A lot of hosts in the radio business will tell you that they are in the advertising business.

                  Guess you knew that too, right?

                  •  Perception is reality man. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    Now you just wrote, it's all about the money.

                    You are RIGHT ABOUT THAT, and IT IS SOMETHING RICHARD has consistently missed.

                    And do you know what that means?

                    Enabling is what it means.  It means turning a blind eye toward a very ugly problem doing a lot of harm so people can get paid.

                    That's what it means.

                    Limbaugh sells hate and it pays because the haters need validation.  When Limbaugh is on the air, they can point to him and say, "See?  I'm normal.  I'm not alone.  I'm a good American...."

                    That's the enabling going on, and the impact of it happens to be people who are bat shit nuts being elevated to "worth consideration" status, and it's that "all about the money" mindset that gets it done too.

                    As I wrote on the other comment thread, put that garbage on a stick anywhere in the country and they come like flies attracted to a bug lamp and they buy the product, write the letter, tell their friend, cast their vote and make the phone call too, and they do it regularly, because having Limbaugh on the air validating and elevating them is worth a lot of fucking money.

                    Unless...  we raise the cost of doing that, which is precisely what this Limbaugh effort is doing, nothing more nothing less.

                    The difference?

                    We are all about insuring that all the people get a fair shake, are valued properly and respected for who they are and we don't like it when asses with a big mic profit on the backs of other people's lives and sense of worth.

                    He shits on people and gets paid for it big, and frankly the cost on that needs to go up.

                    Why does it need to go up?

                    Because if you are all about the money, then you clearly are not about actually adding value to make that money, content to over exploit people instead.

                    And you are right about being in the advertizing business too.  Selling shit.  That gets radio paid for and we all know that, unless it's listener supported somehow, or the BBC type model funded with a license.

                    (Which I would love to see implemented here for a portion of both AM and FM, and it would kick the snot out of what passes for the vast majority of "free" radio today.

                    That "free" radio really isn't free when it's getting paid for by devaluing other people in public, is it?  They pay with their quality of life and they pay through having to fight to prevent themselves from being marginalized by others just looking to make a buck and feel better about themselves at somebody else's expense.

                    Now, you might mention Stern, or some other shock jocks.  Nothing wrong with that, so long as it's "SouthPark" style, picking on EVERYBODY EQUALLY.  That's entertainment.

                    But when we drill down to specific people and devalue them for profit, that's enabling hate in the forms of bigotry, racism and theocracy and that's not OK on the public airwaves, because when we grant that license, we basically condone slamming women for profit and if you asked the vast majority of Americans that question, they would say it's just not a good thing and they would be completely right about it too.

                    Notice Stern is on subscription media.  That's where Limbaugh should be, so that those he enables and validates can just pay him for that and the rest of us can ignore the whole mess for what it is.

                    The fact that Limbaugh is on the open air condones that shit, and why put up with that?  

                    What self-respecting person could enable that to go on?

                    Fair and rather ugly question isn't it?  I think so.

                    So we are asking it.  Asking it of the advertisers, asking it of you, and of ourselves too.

                    Is airing hate for profit like that OK?  No.  It's not, and a growing number of people know it.  In fact, the only ones who really support it either have to in order to pay the bills, and that's a hard spot to be in for sure, or they are haters needing the affirmation to check what would otherwise be morbid public disgust, or they are dullards, shysters and cons all looking to make a buck however they can.

                    The rest of us think it all sucks just a little bit too much ass.

                    So why bitch?  We basically HAVE TO DO THIS, and you just told us WHY too.


                    ***Be Excellent To One Another***

                    by potatohead on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:26:41 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  radio business and radio propaganda are separate (0+ / 0-)

                    and that's the only reason 95% of talk radio is RW. your business is just business. RW talk is not about management and ownership level business. what's been so good for the right about RW talk radio is that it is 24/7 coordinated advertising for GOP and US Chamber of Commerce objectives. what will they ultimately pay for that? station profits were icing. gravy.

                    i don't pretend to know anything about the  business. i know the managers and owners want to make a profit. but RW talk isn't just about station profits.

                    the people who put together the RW monopoly did it for ideology and for controlling, enabling, and intimidating politicians and media. at some level the karl roves know that monopoly is much more valuable than station profits. they realized they could use it to dominate political discourse in the US. that's been worth trillions the last 20 years selling war, deregulation, tax policy, swiftboating and selling politicians and supremes, global warming denial, and more.

                    the boycotts are hurting limbaugh and other aspects of the radio business that may not be limited to RW talk radio. if your part is being impacted don't blame richard and the boycotters for using their free speech rights to help our democracy function better. the reaction of the RW radio owners isn't fixing the real problem - RW radio liars and haters- they seem to be reacting against music and progressive radio. tell me why that doesnt have some politics in it.

                    at what level of ownership are they going to realize billions are better than millions if they think RW radio can still kick the left's ass? or just as a write-off that is the GOP's best media tool- an essential one to keep going? RW radio monopoly started with subsidies and they bought up the loudest stations and probably targeted university athletics relationships (or maybe that was icing). why wouldn't it keep getting subsidized?

                    if you're being effected and you have no connection to RW talk then like all the people who have suffered from these fucking republicans, i'm sorry to hear it. if you've made money off RW radio and thought of it as just another free speech expression for political entertainers while they do coordinated denial of global warming then Earth says fuck you. i've talked to enough managers and call screeners to know some of them are total republican tools and others are just paying bills in transition to something better, maybe didn't know what they were getting into.

                    but if you're in the advertising part maybe there's an opportunity helping radio advertisers on loud RW stations find multiple non-partisan smaller and more targeted audiences.

                    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                    by certainot on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 07:35:55 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  In the bigger scheme of things Richard is nobody (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                potatohead, mrsgoo

                Just as I am nobody, and the retired ladies my friend Patty emails are nobody ... And, there are thousands of us nobodies who have been contacting Rush's advertisers and causing them to have second thoughts about how they spend their ad money. Keep insulting people. See how that works out for you.

                Free: The Authoritarians - all about those who follow strong leaders.

                by kbman on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 10:11:01 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah, I hear you, and have a basic question: (0+ / 0-)

                How come more people in the business aren't stepping up?

                We all know the end game on this.  Very few jobs, automated radio everywhere, a great medium reduced to a mere pipe, blasting out whatever it can, on very thin margins, just eeking along on massive economies of scale.

                This leaves all of us in a mess!  Great people who know how to connect and build communities, scenes and add a lot of value during tough times gone!

                Just fucking gone.  One by one.

                So how come?  Why not pick that fight now?

                I hear this a lot, and I believe many of you who say it mean it, but when the rubber hits the road a few words here and there really don't mean anything do they?

                And I know that is hard.  Those that have jobs want to keep them, but at what cost?  

                I've walked before.  I've taken a few assholes down at great personal cost before too.  Sucks ass.

                But I can't really respect anyone who enables this shit to continue and most of what I hear from radio professionals is enabling and there is no way around it.

                We all know the Telecommunications act of 1996 started this shit, so where is the call to action to undo that?

                You guys love the medium.  Many of us do too, and when we speak up, it's always this double edged thing where we get told to not speak to loudly because people's jobs are at stake, yet keeping those jobs just makes the problem worse!!

                If this is how it will all go, radio is going to die big.  There will be pockets here and there with a few locals doing it right, but those will get lost amidst the sea of automatic radio on remote control nation wide.

                And over time that will undermine the basic expectations everybody has for radio.  Much damage has been done.  Perhaps too much.  That's a worthy discussion, isn't it?

                I think so.

                But I also think that damage isn't yet terminal, but some people are going to have to speak out on media consolidation.  It's going to hurt, and it's going to hurt like speaking out on any basic thing does.

                We know enduring that hurt often gets shit done, so how come we don't see you guys, particularly those that just got the shaft and will be getting it big this year don't get together and show us how it's done?

                There are what?  50K of you now, on the sidelines?

                Time to step up.  Seriously.  Don't fuck with those of us who are.

                ***Be Excellent To One Another***

                by potatohead on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 10:41:04 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Oh, and nobodies have always gotten it done. (0+ / 0-)

                You have the same history I do.  Think about it.  Think hard.

                ***Be Excellent To One Another***

                by potatohead on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 10:41:56 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Let me answer both of your post (0+ / 0-)

                  If you want to know the biggest reason why the business is where it's at? Just take a good look at the men and women who are running it. A lot of them are older and don't get technology at all. Many of them either don't understand the potential and/or don't want to. Plus, a lot of good people, either through the years of layoffs and attrition, have left radio. Add to that, radio isn't the special medium it used to be. People are making money and stations do have value but it's not the vast wild west of the Internet. There isn't a big push to be a radio star.

                  Stepping up? Stepping up to what? You want a revolution? You want a sea change? There are people who want to see it and there is a movement within our industry doing it. However, like all things, it takes time. But the biggest thing is that radio stations are very expensive to run and maintain. Technology, like every other business, has had eliminated jobs and functions that people used to do. In fact, 5 years ago, I went to the NAB and was stunned at the stuff Google was doing when they tried to get into radio. Stuff that had me shaking my head and thinking that big changes are coming. Google failed of course but they brought a lot of innovation to the party before they left.

                  As for nobodies, I apologize for that. However, I know that Richard has no shot of changing anything we do. The activists only carry weight so far. At best, you may get someone suspended but that's about it. The market is our only worry at this point.

                  •  Not good enough. (0+ / 0-)


                    The under 30 crowd is rapidly tuning out and you are losing people like me, who are forced to make some very ugly choices to support a medium we care about.

                    I've turned it off, and I'm advocating others do the same and tune into other media, small scale media, foreign media, any media but the established players here.

                    We really don't need you guys and you are doing a lot of harm more than you are good.

                    Maybe there aren't any outs on that.  If so, that's gonna be rough for people like you.  I would not look forward to it, and frankly would get the hell out and pick up on something that isn't so damn ugly.

                    And before you think that sounds bad, or is intended as an insult, know that I have done that in my life a few times at great personal cost too.  But I wake up and look in the mirror and know I'm absolutely not part of enabling racists, bigots and theocrats for profit.

                    Personal call there too.  To each their own.  If you can live with it and support your family, I will never blame you for that.  I couldn't.

                    But this "takes time" deal doesn't resonate.  Really, it doesn't at all.  Tons of people out now, many never to return.  Rather than express the tepid "roll with it, it will get better" meme, why not start really educating, exposing, and helping people to get shit done?

                    Take care, I don't envy you.  Cheers!

                    ***Be Excellent To One Another***

                    by potatohead on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:34:19 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

          •  BS- you're an idiot if you can't separate rush (0+ / 0-)

            and the other RW scriptreaders who work for the GOP and corporate think tanks to short circuit democracy and attack good people all day long from the rest of the industry.

            he's not one guy- he's the point man for a well coordinated propaganda operation on a monopoly of 1000 plus talk radio stations.

            This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

            by certainot on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 08:13:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Another tin foil hat person (0+ / 0-)

              Everything you wrote must have been signaled to you from your tin foil hat. It's nowhere near the case.

              These "RW scriptreaders" - or whatever your mind has come up with are - entertainers with a following. They know how to make people believe their act. Looks like they fooled you too.

              The fact that you really believe that Rush a point guy on anything is hilarious. He's a blowhard with a microphone. Just like Howard Stern, they know how to work an audience very well. There is a reason they are called shock jocks.

              •  i've been listening to them for 20 yearsoff and on (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                and the limbaughs and hannitys are not like sterns and imuses- they are part of a well oiled machine - after hearing them for years come to the same conclusions, use the same straw men and distortions and talking points in unison on the main issues, and to hear them being backed up by the local blowhards, to hear them get the same guest hacks from the think tanks, it doesn't take tin foil.

                This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                by certainot on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 08:38:38 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Hell, I learned that when I was driving between (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  Stockton and Oceanside when MIL was in the hospital. It blew my mind how you could go from station to station through the valley and hear different people talking about the EXACT SAME THING! With the same words. It was like - well, guess everybody got the memo today. Well oiled propaganda machine indeed.

                  if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

                  by mrsgoo on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:23:32 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  damn, i wasted 19 + years. (0+ / 0-)

                    but they're still a good way to find out what the enemy is doing before the left in general, and how they can get away with their shit.

                    the rush effort may be more concerned with the hate speech but the attention RW radio in general is getting is very positive.

                    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                    by certainot on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 07:55:53 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  So what? (0+ / 0-)

                  Who cares if you listen to them. In all those 20 years or so, have ever seen any significant changes in what we do? Hell no.

                  Ownership rules? That's a joke. The FCC had all these hearings and all the activist and groups came out. It was a huge deal that the FCC Commissioner at the time - Kevin martin - bragged about. Remember the end result? Not much.

                  •  that's the success of RW radio- short circuiting (0+ / 0-)

                    democracy, yelling over the real feedback.

                    republicans and corporate dems have deregulated and a lot of it comes directly from the left giving talk radio a free speech free ride.

                    our reps, especially republicans, don't have to listen to real constituents- RW radio gets a free speech free ride to create their own pro-corporate made-to-order constituencies. that's where the tea party came from. that's how single payer and public option were defeated. that's why we don't have media or election reform. an while the left toils year after year to keep orgs and groups of individual activists together all the GOP has to do is jack up 50 mil RW radio listeners for a week and get 10% of them all excited to scream and shout and intimidate and then the MSM says the center is center right and even the 'left-of-center' talking heads repeat it.


                    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                    by certainot on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 07:48:23 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

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