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View Diary: MAJOR 2nd Amendment victory in the most RKBA-hostile state in America (608 comments)

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  •  as i've stated many time (12+ / 0-)

    i am not a fan of original intent, and i do believe in a living constitution. at this point in time, the living constitution supports the individual right and an expansive view of what that right includes. that's the law. thanks largely to republican judges, that's the law. but that could change, over time.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 01:08:37 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  So when defeated on principle (8+ / 0-)

      you retreat into partisan polarization.
      Disappointing in a front pager I knew from before that.
      You lose.
      And you lose because you are wrong.
      Legally and morally wrong.
      You are, however, free to continue to whine, of course.

      "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State ..."- Vermont Constitution Chapter 1, Article 16

      by kestrel9000 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 01:13:39 PM PST

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      •  it's not principle, it's politics (10+ / 0-)

        but given that the percent of americans who own guns is going down, that the largest growing demographic groups are more supportive of gun control than of gun ownership rights, and that the general trend in human history is toward more gun laws as countries become more economically and politically stable, i do think that living constitution will continue to evolve. it's just a question of how many needless deaths and injuries will happen between now and then.

        The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

        by Laurence Lewis on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 01:19:22 PM PST

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        •  I find this very hopeful, Mr. Lewis. If we keep (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sue B, cany, newpioneer, Laurence Lewis

          moving along a trajectory begun by Obamacare leading to health coverage for all citizens, we may also get a more humane society/safety net which would REQUIRE feeding and housing all citizens, educating all kids, treating workers with respect (including unions) and generally just behaving better.

          A big difference between Europe and the U.S. is not just their more generous social programs; they have fewer guns.

          Somebody's sig used to say America had the choice between being the world's doctor or bread basket but we chose to become the world's cop.

          "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

          by glorificus on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 02:33:34 PM PST

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        •  This is rhetoric. (6+ / 0-)

          You issue a call here for erosion of rights.

          "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State ..."- Vermont Constitution Chapter 1, Article 16

          by kestrel9000 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 02:59:33 PM PST

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          •  nope (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Hedwig, Cartoon Peril, luckydog

            i issue a call that we catch up with the rest of the developed world.

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 04:11:40 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  All laws take away rights. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PavePusher

            The Alien and Sedition Acts took away people's right to criticize the Government.

            The Equal Pay Act takes away a woman's right to agree to be paid less than a man for equal work.

            DC laws took away the right of individuals to own a handgun.

            Spousal rape laws take away a man's right to have sex with his wife irrespective of consent.

            Obamacare takes away the right of individuals to self insure.

            The NLRA takes away an employer's right to fire employees who attempt to unionize.

            Some of those rights are good, some are bad, and some are neutral.

        •  I'd love to see where this opinion is (5+ / 0-)

          supported by verifiable facts:

          the percent of americans who own guns is going down,
          Despite the rhetoric here and in the media these days, facts are that gun purchases have increased. And I've personally witnessed die-hard liberal democratic co-workers going for firearm training to get permitted here in NY.  

          I've not found one link that can say your position is valid, really.  When you get into the "nitty gritty" of what is being reported, you find that it's all opinion based on "surveys".  That doesn't equal reality however.

          You do recall that Kerry lost the election right? Even though "exit surveys" showed him winning by 4%.

           

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 05:51:33 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  more guns, fewer owners (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            luckydog

            The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

            by Laurence Lewis on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 09:07:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Pure propaganda. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Robobagpiper
              according to a CNN analysis of gun ownership data.
              Remember this?

              OR "Syria Danny"????

              Hey, but thanks for trying.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 10:20:50 PM PST

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              •  wrong again (0+ / 0-)

                The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                by Laurence Lewis on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 10:24:22 PM PST

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                •  Okay, thanks but still PROPAGANDA! (0+ / 0-)

                  What the hell is the "General Social Survey"???

                  You'd have us believe that the fear porn the right-wing has been pushing for 4 yrs that "Obama is coming for your guns" would lead to legitimate "survey results"?

                  How many people were questioned, when, where, what time of day, what States, rural or urban, what level of education, what level of income, etc.  Then tell me that anyone answering the questions would actually answer them honestly?

                  The GSS sounds alot like The British Crime Survey in the UK, I've studied it extensively and found it was full of crap, to be polite.  They claimed crimes were going down while they "redefined" crimes, ignored & deleted legitimate reports, their scam was revealed here.

                  How do you explain this?
                  November NICS Checks Set All Time Record

                  As you can tell, I have no faith in "surveys", give me hard facts please, say a list of approved gun purchases, how many are repeat buyers? We'd have to assume not many because the FBI would be all over it if someone went in and bought 1000 firearms over a weeks period AND it would be all over the news.

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 10:45:40 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  um (0+ / 0-)

                    hard facts? this is pretty basic:

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                    the people who buy guns are buying lots of them because of scary obama, the democrat who actually agrees with the individual right interpretation. there are still fewer people, buying more guns. it's a trend.

                    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                    by Laurence Lewis on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 10:49:32 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Here we go again, might I say this? (0+ / 0-)

                      Manufactured Consent!

                      From your link:

                      The General Social Survey (GSS) is a sociological survey used to collect data on demographic characteristics and attitudes of residents of the United States.

                      As of 2010 28 national samples with 55,087 respondents and 5,417 variables had been collected

                      Let's see: there are 311 million Americans today, we'll go down to 310 for fairness (since it's from 2010) and they "surveyed" 55,000 people.

                      That's 1.7% of our population.  Add some fairy dust into the matrix and voila, we have a "representative" sample of the entire population, NOT!

                      "OK for message testing," Jones said. "But not OK for claiming public opinion is on your side."
                      Again, I don't trust surveys.  I trust what I've personally witnessed here in my liberal State of New York. The changing attitudes, more and more people going for firearms training, more and more people getting handgun permits, etc.

                      I actually was contacted by phone by our "Democratic Party" a couple years ago and the woman asked me: "If you don't mind, I have a series of questions that should take about 15 minutes to complete." She went on to ask me general questions the 4th or 5th question was: "Since we have a gun violence epidemic, what should we do about it?"  My answer was to point her to the constitution.  She promptly said, "thank you" and hung up on me.

                      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                      by gerrilea on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 08:53:32 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

      •  morally wrong? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PavePusher

        how so?

        I understand the legal point, yes.

    •  Article 5 awaits you. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      theatre goon, johnel, Robobagpiper

      Go hog wild.

      In the meantime, a "living Constitution" does not mean that you can simply ignore the plain meaning of words.  That's not how it works.  If you don't like the original intent, change the Amendment.  Otherwise, the Constitution can not mean anything other than what it says.

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