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View Diary: MAJOR 2nd Amendment victory in the most RKBA-hostile state in America (608 comments)

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  •  I realize that, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ichibon, glorificus

    and yes I do think it can and will get worse because of this.  I really don't know what the answer is, but I really hope soon it gets better. I cannot imagine this making it better, that is for sure.

    Don't look at me in that tone of voice. Dorothy Parker

    by kirbybruno on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 01:21:37 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Why? (10+ / 0-)

      There is evidence out there to suggest that someone carrying an illegal firearm is more likely to use it in haste than someone carrying a registered firearm.

      People who commit crimes with guns usually aren't using registered ones (or following the law to begin with).  They engage in various criminal acts (that will certainly remain criminal) like removing serial numbers.  Criminals will have guns because guns exist, criminals want them, and someone will always be willing to sell A to B for Cashmoney.

      People have a basic right to defend themselves.  You can restrict how they do so (automatic weapons bans, gun registrations, carry permits, background checks, restrictions on the number of guns owned) as well you should, but you can't regulate away the right itself without turning normal citizens into criminals.  Just because you choose not to exercise that right does not mean that you get to deprive someone else of that right.  

      The law, as it is now, turns normal law-abiding people who want to be able to defend themselves into criminals.  It forces them to live in fear: that they will be arrested for being armed, or that they will be victimized because they were not.  That is not right and not just.  

      The state could not show reasonable evidence that their existing law was based anything more than 'guns are bad because bullets come out of them.'  Laws not based on provable fact need to be challenged, whether you agree with them or not.

      •  Our arguments won't really work on each (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Hedwig

        other because I don't think anyone should have guns. I personally think that the value of life has sunk so low that they should not be an option for defense.  I am not saying that it was always that way, but that is the way it is now, IMO. Anything I say to you will seem extreme. Which is why I normally don't come in these diaries, but I guess I couldn't resist the local news.

        Don't look at me in that tone of voice. Dorothy Parker

        by kirbybruno on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 05:06:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Are you okay with the police and the military (5+ / 0-)

          having guns?

          By the Collision of different Sentiments, Sparks of Truth are struck out, and political Light is obtained. - Benjamin Franklin

          by oldpunk on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 07:51:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not sure I understand what you mean here... (5+ / 0-)

          Because I'm reading it as saying that human life is of so little value that, in any case in which the available options are a violent death ordefending one's life with a firearm, (and, yes, with a significant chance that one's attacker will die) the victim's death is the better outcome.

          That point of view is so morally offensive to me that I don't want to attribute it to anyone, especially not erroneouly.

          Is this really what you're saying?

          --Shannon

          "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
          "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

          by Leftie Gunner on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 08:44:56 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  There is no evidence (9+ / 0-)

      to support such a belief. Criminals do not get permits or register their firearms. Permit holders have lower crime rates that law enforcement officers.

      "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

      by happy camper on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 03:02:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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