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View Diary: What's the Deal With Unions Anyway? (103 comments)

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  •  Well, I replied seriously to scottdog because (5+ / 0-)

    I know a lot of otherwise kindly and liberal-thinking people who have the same misunderstandings and blind spots when it comes to unions.

    •  I agree (4+ / 0-)
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      wbr, SilentBrook, MKinTN, VClib

      and I don't typically indulge those who have come so far and still do not see however, his questions are common and incredibly easy to answer and yes, even posed by liberals.

      When an idea makes no sense, you must point out that it is a dead end. They will likely ignore you and continue to believe but according to studies, making a someone think through and then explain their position is more effective than simply shooting them down.
      If they cannot make sense of it in the end, they are more likely to consider other options.

    •  Ditto, that. (1+ / 0-)
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      The HR is inappropriate. ScottDog asked a legitimate question, whatever he may have said elsewhere and regardless of whether or not he's a conservative. It's a question that's worth answering. That's how we learn.

      The GOP can't win on ideas. They can only win by lying, cheating, and stealing. So they do.

      by psnyder on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 06:32:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  so, scottdog's admission to being a conservative & (0+ / 0-)

        espousing the rw ideology of austerity economics as her/his preference in dealing with our current situation is not legitimate grounds for hr'ing???

        according to this site's rules & regs it is.

        if one wants to debate the merits -- or lack of -- the rw's pov, there are plenty of rw sites where commenters like scottdog & those dkos members who wish to engage her/his kind can do so without polluting this one -- & that's from markos, not me, so take it up with him if you don't like it.

        •  Where in the post you HR'd is scottdog (2+ / 0-)
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          VClib, UnionMade

          "espousing the rw ideology of austerity economics as her/his preference in dealing with our current situation"?

          In this thread, Scottdog's posts do raise questions that may well be considered trollerific, but if we have solid answers (as several posters have given here), then all Scottdog has done is help us to espouse the strength of our support for unions. That seems to me more laudable than lamentable, even if that wasn't Scottdog's intent.

          If our enemies do so much of the heavy lifting for us, should not our best response to them be, "Please, proceed," rather than "Shut up!"?

          A winning campaign? You didn't build that...

          by SilentBrook on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 08:55:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  and, again, i repeat: take it up with markos. (0+ / 0-)

            it's his site.  his rules.

            •  Site rules also say... (1+ / 0-)
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              not to drag grudges from one diary to another. You can HR Scottdog's austerity comments 8 ways to Sunday, but a question very much in keeping with the subject of this diary is right on point.

              Furthermore, think about Scottdog and his motivations for posting as he does here on Kos: he thinks his "ideas" are superior to ours and he wants to show off and get validation by muting us with an unanswerable question that shows the "weakness" of our positions.

              It is likely that in this kind of showing off that he's invited a few friends along via social media to see how much better than us he is. If we just HR him every time he posts, that is a demonstration to his lackies that we can't answer his charges, and it validates him by giving him the mute response he craves.

              On the other side, when we answer and refute his nonesense, we can convince people that our positions are well-founded and well stated. We get to claim our own voices, which empowers us. We may even pick up the occasional low-info type who Scottdog invited to watch over to our side. That is full of win.

              A winning campaign? You didn't build that...

              by SilentBrook on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 01:48:41 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  your argument is bogus on two counts: (0+ / 0-)

                1) i wasn't dragging any grugdes from one diary to another.  i wasn't even involved in the diary thread i (unsuccessfully) linked to.  when i first read her/his comment in this thread, i checked her/his profile/comment history to see how recently s/he joined & did s/he have a discernable record of derogatory/baiting comments -- which s/he did.  i attempted to post a link to a particularly abusive one & hr'd her/him for the current diary comment, citing comment history as being consistent with what i perceived as trollish behavior.


                2) scottdog's questioning why unions weren't being swamped with workers seeking membership was a different verse of the same song mich gov rick snyder was singing just the other day when he said unions would have to justify their existence vis a vis the quality of the "product" they were trying to sell to potential members, & that's what the rtw law was all about.

                sounds like rw talking points to me.

                dkos policy is comments that are rw talking points are hr'able -- no matter how much you enjoy debating with the poster.  you can disagree with that 8 ways to sunday, but it is what it is.

        •  Nobody said that trolling RW talking points (1+ / 0-)
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          is not appropriate for an HR.

          But I'll give this a try. Even if he has a history of posting RW comments, it doesn't follow that he has no legitimate questions which, as others have already pointed out, are also asked by plenty of people who are otherwise solid liberals or progressives but may just have a blind spot here.

          I, like you, don't want this to become a place where RWers can come and crash the party. But I also don't want this to be a place where people may be afraid to ask the wrong question lest they be accused of being a RW troll.

          liberal bias = failure to validate or sufficiently flatter the conservative narrative on any given subject

          by RockyMtnLib on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 07:01:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  unionmade -- & that is your perogative, just as it (1+ / 0-)
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      is mine to hr her/him, & i feel i am justified in doing so.  

      s/he has violated site rules (more than once, too) & does not further dkos' mission to elect more & better d's -- at least, that's what a reasonable person can conclude from her/his comment history.

      your attempt to educate scottdog in the error of her/his thinking is commendable, but i'm cynical as to its ultimate efficacy.

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