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  •  There's this wacky meme (none)
    That the foreign press is not to be trusted. Guess that's because they're just anti-American, huh?
    •  Not exactly sure (none)
      What you mean by this -- but I think it's reasonable to question someone's motivation for publishing a story.  It helps provide context, which is necessary in todays world where reporting often goes well beyond fact into editorial land.
      •  There's questioning.. (none)
        And then there's casting doubt. I do think taking any press as gospel is a risky proposition. Pravda has masters to serve just as much as NY Times.

        But to dismiss foreign press out of hand is pretty stupid. It means that you're getting your propaganda from only once source, and sometimes you need to balance your propaganda with propaganda from other sources

        •  Agreed (none)
          I'm not saying that the story is wrong in this case.  But it is reasonable to question whether the foreign source had anything to gain -- and whether the original source (lawyer for detainee?) had their own agenda (I would say yes in this case.
          •  yeah, (none)
            But seriously, take a moment and list out all the players. Everyone's got a stake in it, and then you're in the "That's how they getcha" trap, where you don't trust any source.

            In my mind, the Pentagon has a history of denial, and the allegations fit perfectly into a good psy ops model.  In short, we have means and motive.

            Dissing the foregin press because their foreign is just Jingoist, and probably means you're more vulnerable to the home grown propaganda

          •  At the very least, (none)
            it's a cheap way to change the subject.  

            So ... you've got that going for you, I guess...

            •  It is.. (none)
              a different thread, so not really a change of subject.

              But, when I re-read the idea of questioning the 'foreign press' I can't help but help but wonder how the person who can't even find articles on the topic in question is going to question any press?

              So do we question the press because they are foreign? From this thread, that seems to be the idea, which I think is pretty silly.

              •  Both of the trolls (none)
                on this thread were, first and foremost, concerned with belief, and whom to believe.  

                And therein lies the problem.  They can't deal with anything that doesn't already fit the beliefs.  

                Both of them then challenged us for not being similarly ignorant and limited.  It's not so much a loyalty test that the right demands, it's a gullibility test.  One smart guy can spoil the whole bunch, you know...

              •  One last thought (none)
                I need to go back to work, but just to clarify...

                I wasn't suggesting that we should question the source BECAUSE it was foreign... I agree that would be silly.

                I admit I am probably guilty of looking too often at news/opinion sources that I agree with and not enough at other (like th foriegn press).  

                But to think that this is only a right-wing phenomenon is delusional.  From what I've read here and at other left-wing sites there's plenty of it happening there too.

                •  I agree. (none)
                  And the moment that you think a particular quirk is only attributable to them is probably when you're denying your own involvement in the quirk.

                  But, I think saying its 'balanced' is a bit unfair, and what I consider to be a false equivalency.

                  I do think that liberals in general are more willing to question their sources, if only because they examine so many.

                  •  We will never (none)
                    know if liberals are more informed -- not possible to verify or refute.  I know a lot of honest conservatives who have open minds -- and quite a few liberals with closed ones.

                    I hear the claim that "we are more open to a variety of information" a lot from my liberal friends.  I find it condescending, i.e. "you are a conservative, ergo you are close minded" and the close corollary "I am morally superior to you"

                    Just be careful not to slip into that mindset if you want to have an open discussion.

                    •  Proof in pudding (none)
                      Just about every claim leading up to the war was refuted if you looked for them. Yet there was this constant drum beat of "You hate America or Troops." Still we argued with facts.

                      I argued with friends of mine constantly about the refuted claims but was shut down in the process. These were very bright people who simply would not believe that they were being mislead. One still refuses. And the other one has admitted I was right but won't give me credit because I "was right for the wrong reasons."

                      •  Dang. (none)
                        You beat me to this one.

                        I can only answer from my experience, and from some demographical information.

                        But sure, there's closed minded liberals, but I see a lot more closed minded, incurious conservatives. People leaning to the left tend to be more curious. I'd say there's more Liberals willing to think for themselves than conservatives.

                        But, that doesn't mean that every conservative I meet is an idiot.  But I do see more conservatives come to this board asking to be pointed to articles than I do liberals going to a conservative board to do the same thing.

                        I'm sure it does happen, just I haven't seen it.

                    •  it's not a mindset, necessarily (none)
                      It could just be an observation, based in fact.  But it's very hard to tell.

                      So we need more rigor in this entire debate.  For instance, a scientific study of conservatives to see if they're closed minded due to genetics or environmental factors like pollution.

                      Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho Marx

                      by markymarx on Wed May 25, 2005 at 03:59:00 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

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