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View Diary: UPDATE:Fox uses Breitbart-style video editing from Michigan RTW rally to show "union thug brutality" (112 comments)

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  •  Let's talk ethics (1+ / 0-)
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    AoT

    Let's talk intent.

    Ethics: that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

    The agitprop from the AFP/Fox folks was a well planned, deliberate attempt to inflame and provoke the protestors.

    Yes some of the protestors responded in the way the right wingers wanted them to respond.  But the right wingers who went to the rally with a deliberate plan to disrupt protestors and incite violence are engaging in unethical behavior.  

    There's a big difference between engaging in bad behavior because you intend to do so and engaging in it as a result of provocation.

    So yeah, from the viewpoint of ethics - the AFP/Fox crowd are to blame.  They intentionally engaged in dishonest, violent behavior with the clear intent of stirring things up.

    Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

    by Betty Pinson on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 11:39:30 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  AFP and Crowder's bad ethics (1+ / 0-)
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      Darmok

      do not justify violence to people (Crowder) (unless Crowder intentionally pushed the man down, in which case the man had a right to act in self defense).  

      AFP and Crowder's bad ethics do not justify violence to property, or as one of the marshalls there yesterday said (see my other comments for the link):

      just got home from Lansing -- served as a marshal, trying to keep everybody safe, and keep the piece. Now, I have a lot to say about the AFP loudmouths who were trying to bait some on our side. But they succeeded in their aim, and regrettably, we marshals were unable to stop union members from pulling the tent down. I was right there, trying to stop it and saw it happen.
      and
      Still, there is no doubt that our side was trying to collapse the tent, was involved in physical altercations with AFP folks immediately before it came down, and cheered when it came down
      There is no question that AFP and Crowder engaged in obnoxious, First-Amendment-protected behavior.  Protesters in a highly charged political protest on public grounds must expect obnoxious, First-Amendment-protected behavior from their opposition and are not allowed to respond to that obnoxious, First-Amendment protected behavior with violence against people or property.

      There is very little that I find more hateful or odious than the "protests" of the Westboro Baptist Church.  But even if the funeral that they "protested" was of some one in my family, if I responded to those by tearing down their signs, or by hitting one of them (unless I was acting in self-defense) I would be wrong, wrong, wrong.    It may be understandable from an emotional perspective that I did something like that, but I would not expect others to try to justify my behavior.

      That's how I feel about this situation.  In addition, the wrong behavior here gives fodder to those who want to portray the union in a negative light.  Rather than trying to justify that behavior, people here ought to simply say, "it was wrong, those people acted poorly.  I understand that they let their emotions get the better of them in the face of obnoxious behavior, but they should not have done that."  

      •  Sorry, but, ethically speaking (0+ / 0-)

        AFP/Fox are the bad guys here.  They acted deliberately and with malice.  

        The response by a small number of union guys (and some suspected outside agitators) was a natural reaction to being provoked.  Until we have all the facts and know all the players, I won't judge them.

        Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

        by Betty Pinson on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 12:17:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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