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View Diary: UPDATE:Fox uses Breitbart-style video editing from Michigan RTW rally to show "union thug brutality" (112 comments)

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  •  Well, that and (0+ / 0-)

    the only "eyewitness" whose statement I can find -- Crowder.  Granted, he may be lying, but we can't determine that unless and until we have evidence (like a statement of another witness) that contradicts him. (I won't link you to his statements, because that would send traffic to sites like Fox News, but they are easily found.)

    Right now, I have seen an edited video, and a witness whose account generally corresponds to what we can see on the edited video.  

    •  So, you believe the statements from the (0+ / 0-)

      guy who obviously showed up to be an asshole and rile people up and an edited video from people who had the same goal.  That seems hopelessly naive.

      The revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

      by AoT on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 01:45:57 PM PST

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      •  I don't disbelive someone (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nextstep

        based on whether I like them, or think they are a nice person, or agree with their politics.  

        He has a motive to exaggerate what happened to him, and to omit details so as to make himself look more favorable.  Certainly, that makes me suspicious.  But I believe PART of his statement -- the part about being punched -- because that part is on video.  As to the OTHER parts of his statement (whether he did something to cause the punch), before I conclude someone is lying, I have to have something beyond just who, or that they might have a motive to lie, to do that.  If some information comes out hat contradicts what they are saying --- like another witness -- then I would definitely consider which one has a motivation to  lie.

        I have to tell you, though, that the fact that there were clearly a number of pro-union people around who saw the punch, the fact that the punch has gotten a lot of attention, and the fact that we haven't (as far as I'm aware) had anybody step up to say, "I saw it, Crowder was the aggressor and the union supporter was just hitting him in self-defense" weighs against concluding that Crowder is blatantly lying.  If the truth is far from what is being reported, I would certainly hope that one of the many people who were in the area would step up to set the record straight.  

        •  I'm not disagreeing with them for those reasons (0+ / 0-)

          I'm disagreeing with them because they've admitted that they are working in the tradition of a liar.  Breitbart was a liar.  O'Keefe is a liar.  There have been plenty of other instances where their organizations have lied about "union thugs" attacking them when it was not true.  I'm basing it on this guys statements and the people he claims to imitate.  That's not about politics or whether I like the guy, it's about being reasonable.

          I'd add that you're never going to find out what happened here.  Someone will figure out that it was a lie and then everyone will have moved on and the right will ignore that a majority of the cases like this have been bullshit, and folks like you will never see the corrections.

          The revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

          by AoT on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 04:04:38 PM PST

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      •  We don't have all the evidence (0+ / 0-)

        So we really don't know what happened at this point to get everyone riled up.

        IANAL, but I'm trying to make the point that the Birchers engaged in behavior that was intended to disrupt and inflame the demonstrators.  Whether that fits the legal definition of inciting a riot is unknown, but their intent was clear.

        They were not innocent bystanders there to exercise their First Amendment rights. They had a plan, likely one involving a coordinated effort to disrupt the activities and paint the demonstrators in a bad light.

        Democratic Leaders must be very clear they stand with the working class of our country. Democrats must hold the line in demanding that deficit reduction is done fairly -- not on the backs of the elderly, the sick, children and the poor.

        by Betty Pinson on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 06:24:17 AM PST

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