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View Diary: Normalizing Gun Violence In Our Society (806 comments)

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  •  if we had only totally banned every gun (5+ / 0-)

    years ago, this wouldn't have happened.

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 09:55:00 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  And if that would work, we could ban alcohol (12+ / 0-)

      and cigarettes: they kill nearly half a million americans a year.

      Certainly that merits SOME concern, yes?

      The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 10:25:17 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Cigarettes rarely used to massacre people. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Agathena, smartdemmg, coquiero

        You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

        by Cartoon Peril on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 11:40:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Cigatrettes still kill 356500+ Americans (8+ / 0-)

          each year.

          Moms, dads, offspring.

          Lives cut needlessly short, but nobody cares.

          A lengthy, lingering death is more preferrable, I guess.

          Dead is dead.

          The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

          by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 11:44:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sheesh. Can you smoke in a public building? (6+ / 0-)

            Where I live, you can't smoke withing 25 feet of a door to a public building, because of the regulations you say don't exist, because of the second hand smoke concerns you just listed.

            Nobody cares?  Tell that to the people standing in the .snow with their cigs that included a huge sin tax

            One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

            by Inland on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 12:05:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  There's a difference between mass suicide and (3+ / 0-)

            mass homicide. That is the difference between smoking and carrying guns.

            Even with second hand smoke you have a chance to get to a physician and receive treatment. It's hard to survive an assault rifle shooting at the mall.

            It's the Central Limit Theorem, Stupid!

            by smartdemmg on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 12:15:42 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  This is a distraction. (4+ / 0-)

            No one is terrorizing shopping centers with lit cigarettes. How is that comparable at all?

            The question is this: are we really so adamant about not encroaching on gun owners' rights, ever, that we are willing to accept these horrific incidents of mass terror -- because that's what they are -- simply as a matter of course?

            There are far fewer places where we can encounter second-hand smoke than there were even fifteen years ago. This is because municipal and state legislators have taken proactive steps to address the impact of second-hand smoke on others.

            It shouldn't be a federal crime just to point out that a similar set of proactive steps might be helpful in cutting down on gun violence.

            Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of non-thought. -- Milan Kundera

            by Dale on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 12:45:33 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  And we regulate indoor smoking, etc., to stem (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            coquiero, glorificus, SoCalSal

            the effect on others.

            If you can show me one case of someone lighting up and people falling over bleeding, I'll give you a medal.

            These strawman arguments are useless.

            202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

            by cany on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 01:05:16 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Alcohol can kill numbers of people at a time (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KenBee, PavePusher

          in a multi-car wreck.

          A drunk killed a lot of kids on a schoolbus once.

          No calls for banning alcohol, though.

          The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

          by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 11:45:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Heh. You're just wrong. Dry counties, for one: (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            smartdemmg, coquiero, Cartoon Peril

            for two,alcohol consumption even where legal is controlled in ways that guns aren't.  Licenses.  No sales on Sunday.  No sales past 2:00 a.m.  No consumption in the parks.  No sales to ADULTS under 21.  And of course, a variety of civil liabilities if you overserve someone.

            Like cars, alcohol is under a variety of regulations that are accepted because the idea of some regulation is generally accepted for all items that can be of danger or even a nuisance to others.

            Only guns are considered beyond that sort of consideration.

            One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

            by Inland on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 12:03:02 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  This is snark, right? (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fuzzyguy, KenBee, PavePusher, FrankRose

              Dry counties?

              Are you joking?

              yes...we have MANY rules governing the use of cars and that is why we have exactly ZERO traffic fatalities.

              Because people will FOLLOW RULES!!

              The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.

              by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 12:42:18 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Nobody expects ZERO car fatalities from regs: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                coquiero

                everyone's satisfied with fewer car fatalities and application of common sense restrictions.

                And nobody expects everyone to follow the rules.  Thats' why there's punishments,license revocation, and if that doesn't work, prison time.

                Is there anyone who would want cars and driving as unregulated as guns currently are?   Besides habitual drunk drivers?

                One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                by Inland on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 01:15:58 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Why, yes, dry counties. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                PavePusher

                They exist.  C.f. Faulkner County, Arkansas.

                •  I remember when Rand was running KY-Sen: (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  PavePusher

                  I wanted someone to ask him if his libertarian philosophy meant condeming the dozen or so dry kentucky counties.

                  One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                  by Inland on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 02:51:12 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Texas has many dry counties, a facade easily (0+ / 0-)

                  circumvented.

                  "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

                  by glorificus on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 07:26:36 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Those rules seem to be working. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Inland

                2011 had the fewest automobile caused deaths since 1949.  Too bad we can't say the same about guns.

                But, then cars are made to transport people and things, whereas guns are made to kill.

                You rarely find a story that says two stoners beat each other up outside of a bar.

                by jparnell on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 01:20:29 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Do you really not know about dry counties? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                PavePusher

                That would surprise me.

                Streichholzschächtelchen

                by otto on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 01:40:44 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Maybe he's not a drinker. But once you've (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  PavePusher, otto

                  wanted a drink and told there's none to be had, you don't forget.

                  One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                  by Inland on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 02:49:59 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  He's a drug legalization advocate (0+ / 0-)

                    I can't imagine someone whose activist goal it is to end prohibition on marijuana wouldn't have a better grasp of the current day consequences of historic alcohol prohibition.  

                    Streichholzschächtelchen

                    by otto on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 06:10:29 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  otto your snark-0-meter needs calibration (0+ / 0-)

                      DocZombie is keenly aware of the entirety of Prohibition and rampant gangsterism.

                    •  you are missing the point, alcohol is not illegal (0+ / 0-)

                      in dry counties, you just can not buy booze.....not even close to the situation with marijuana or even firearms since McDonald and Heller.  In both mere possession could result in felony charges while in a dry county, a well stocked home bar is perfectly legal.  

                      The problem is not the object, it is prohibition of the object.

                      Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
                      I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
                      Emiliano Zapata

                      by buddabelly on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 06:43:03 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I don't think you followed (0+ / 0-)

                        XXxombie didn't know appear to know anything about dry counties.  I was surprised at that.

                        It's part of the history of prohbition, it doesn't mean it is equivalent.

                        Streichholzschächtelchen

                        by otto on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 12:09:02 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                •  maybe the implication is (0+ / 0-)

                  that alcohol prohibition in dry counties isn't effective out has unwanted side effects.

                  "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                  by AaronInSanDiego on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 10:37:39 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  "dry county" doesn't mean no alcohol allowed. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              theatre goon

              It means no alcohol can be bought/sold.  You can still bring it in from outside for personal consumption.

              •  That still strikes me as a signficant regulation. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                coquiero

                Then again, so do closing times and no sales to adults under the age of 21.

                One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                by Inland on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 06:42:22 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You are right, it is. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  theatre goon, KVoimakas

                  Overbearing, in fact.

                  •   (0+ / 0-)

                    One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                    by Inland on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 06:52:53 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  And because wer' (0+ / 0-)

                    One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                    by Inland on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 06:53:20 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Trying again: because we're talking about booze (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    PsychoSavannah

                    we are able to discuss, and eventually vote, on whether a two am closing time is a good idea.Or whether making it illegal to have an open container in an operating vehicle is a good idea

                    It's the sort of democracy that is NOT allowed for guns.  

                    Now, it's pretty apparent that you're trying to take an extreme libertarian position,  probably because you think that it helps the anti gun law rhetoric, but it doesn't.   Nobody wants the world where a democracy is unable to make commonsense rules on safety and nuisance, and nobody sees why an exception has to be carved out for guns.

                    One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                    by Inland on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 07:01:10 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I don't believe in manditory closing times. (0+ / 0-)

                      I'd like bars to be open 24 hrs.  But then, I've worked the swing and graveyard shifts for some 2/3rds of my career.

                      Far too many people don't understand that the world doesn't stop after the sun goes down.

                      •  There's one person FOR everything. (0+ / 0-)

                        But only for guns does that one person get to DECIDE everything.  Who would have it any other way?

                        Far too many people don't understand that the world doesn't stop after the sun goes down.
                        Well, you have your local liquor board to tell that to, when you request a change in hours.   I'm not going to argue with you about it, only note that unlike with guns, your rights of a citizen include mobilizing public support for new laws.

                        One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                        by Inland on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:16:54 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Oh, Democracy can certainly limit firearms... (0+ / 0-)

                      and has done so repeatedly.

                      But if you want to go beyond the current limits of the Constitution, you have to do it the proper way: Article 5 awaits you, go hog wild.

                      •  It USED to. (0+ / 0-)

                        Like for two hundred years prior to Justice Scalia.

                        But if you want to go beyond the current limits of the Constitution, you have to do it the proper way: Article 5 awaits you, go hog wild.
                        Heh.  Actually, Justice Kennedy's retirement awaits me, without having to make any effort beyond the votes I've already taken.

                        My question is, how far will dkos members go in insisting on the appointment of an RKBA justice?  Not that I expect a truthful answer.  

                        One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

                        by Inland on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:22:12 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You keep saying that.... (0+ / 0-)

                          "Like for two hundred years prior to Justice Scalia."

                          ...and it keeps not being true.  I am sure this vexes you.  Save your strength.

                          And SC justices are all very reluctant to overturn their own prior precedent without some seriously ground-shaking evidence.  Good luck with that.

            •  How do you figure? (0+ / 0-)

              That guns are beyond that sort of consideration?

          •  That may be true - but you can bet if any adult (0+ / 0-)

            could carry a flask 24/7, and consume any time they wanted to, there would be A LOT more fatalities and injuries due to alcohol impaired judgment.

          •  This just seems willfully perverse. (0+ / 0-)

            Some 15-year old kid spends his last ten minutes in life crouching behind a garbage can, hoping that he hasn't been noticed by the gunman... the screams of the dying everywhere around him... and you're wanting us to just file that scenario away alongside a set of drunk driving and lung cancer statistics?

            I'm sorry, but that just seems like the absolute height of cynicism to me.

            Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of non-thought. -- Milan Kundera

            by Dale on Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 12:51:20 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Medical errors are MUCH more deadly than guns (0+ / 0-)

            and cigarettes combined.

            LET'S BAN DOCTORS!!!!!!!

            "I believe more women should carry guns. I believe armed women will make the world a better place. Women need to come to think of themselves not as victims but as dangerous." Anna Pigeon

            by glorificus on Thu Dec 13, 2012 at 07:24:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Banning and regulation are different (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AaronInSanDiego

        Alcohol use is banned in situations where it poses a risk to life and limb.  (Driving, certain hazardous occupations, etc.)  Alcohol sale and manufacture are highly regulated.  Tobacco sale and use are highly regulated, and those regulations work.

        Conflating regulation with prohibition is demagoguery.

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