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View Diary: When is the right time to talk about this bullshit? (821 comments)

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  •  Couldn't agree more (15+ / 0-)

    I tend to support the 2nd Amendment, but lately, I feel like there's something amiss with society and how it is using guns in improper ways. I don't see the sorts of things which you listed as "rights" either. Obviously. The problem seems to be, to me, that mentally distraught people are easily able to access weapons and seem to choose to pick guns, and then they seem to kill a lot of people. I'm thinking Holmes, Loughner, Breivik, but also that guy Jacob Taylor, who clearly, according to his friends, was having a mental health crisis. I think this one was as well. I'd say Zimmerman seems imbalanced when it comes to his perceptions as well.

    So... that seems to be a problem to me. A big one. Not one that is constitutionally protected, although I'm not a constitutionalist in the least; I support the old fashioned idea of guns as protective devices, plain and simple. A typical Wild West sort of view born from living in an area where there are coyotes who kill your chickens.

    But this issue, of all these nutjobs getting their hands on guns, it troubles me. Why is this happening, and why now, and what can we do to stop it?

    The amendment hasn't changed in hundreds of years, so I don't feel that this is the core problem. But I do see something in our society that is creating an allure and easy use and easy access to certain types of non-protective weapons which is causing mass murder.

    And that must stop.

    It's not easy to talk about because it's a compound issue which necessitates talking about mental health and gun control both. Addressing just one or the other won't work to staunch this. There are hundreds of thousands of guns in the United States. Same as many other countries where there aren't mass murders like this. I'd say the US is experiencing an en masse brief reactive psychosis with paranoid delusions and acting out in starts and fits on these.

    So do we need to talk about that? Absolutely.

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    by mahakali overdrive on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:30:08 AM PST

    •  How many years (8+ / 0-)

      Has this brief reactive psychosis been going on?

      I would call it a lot of things, but brief isn't one of them.

      As for the second amendment, it's been thoroughly degraded at this point.

      •  I don't know... (5+ / 0-)

        It seems like it's been worse this past few years. I've always followed mass murders (sorry to sound morbid), and this seems to be very high recently.

        I regret not adding another vital component to the equation in my initial comment which should thoroughly be explored as well, and that is the issue of the paramilitarization of the police force, which has been addressed at certain parts of Occupy; I feel like this could be contributing to the creation of a strange national standard.

        Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

        by mahakali overdrive on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:44:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  One of my older sister's friends (19+ / 0-)

          Was kidnapped, along with his sisters, shot, stuffed into the trunk of the car, and his sisters raped while he lay dying.

          This happened when I was a kid.

          One of my nieces was in a near-mass shooting at a local fast food joint during her lunch hour in the 1980s.

          Those are just anecdotes, I know, but only a few from my own memory. Maybe I could recount the time a gunman showed up in a bar that two friends and I were visiting in San Francisco---also 1980s. And the list goes on.

          These are incidents that didn't make the national news. The paramilitarization of N. America was well on its way by the time of the OKC bombing, and many of the militia members who scattered as a result of it still hold grudges against Clinton, SPLC and others for daring out them.

          This is a longstanding part of American culture. We as a country have allowed ourselves to be hi-jacked by a lobbying organizations and some, to be blunt, whackjobs who lack critical thinking abilities and harbor deep seated paranoias and inadequacies.

          I grew up with guns and hunting. One of my drunken brothers once got blotto and nearly commited mass murder himself when he gathered up all the guns in the house and held off the local police force for I don't know how long. I don't hate guns, even after that. I despise, however, their accessibility and the mindset, the completely illogical and authoritarian mindset, that perpetuates that accessibility and the cult surrounding its protection.

          I. Am. Sick. Of. It.

          •  A lot of gun "anecdotes" don't make (7+ / 0-)

            the national news, or even the local news.

            The five teenagers I've known who shot and killed themselves with the family gun- they got a death notice in the paper, but no story about the circumstances of their deaths.

            The only gun death in my personal experience that got any coverage was a 10 year old boy whose mom shot and killed him, just before she shot and killed herself. But even that was pretty vague, like "police have ruled his death a homicide".

            •  There are so many of (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gramofsam1, splashy

              Those kinds of gun deaths anymore that most get scant notice in the papers.

              And, in papers also published online, the commenst are inevitably immediately swarmed by those who demand this unfortunate incident of the day (or hour) not result in any kind of action which might threaten anyone's precious guns.

        •  A lot of violence in the old days.... (0+ / 0-)

          ....probably didn't show up on the radar because it was against people no one cared about. Who got excited when a white person shot a black person in the old South?

          "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

          by sagesource on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:42:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Maybe it's the men (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      emptythreatsfarm, 1world, sboucher

      Perhaps men shouldn't be allowed to have guns. It increases their testosterone, making them go nuts. (snark, sort of)

      Since the men can't handle guns properly, and keep using them to harm innocent people, there should be a time out on them being allowed to have them until they prove they can do it safely.

      Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

      by splashy on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 01:24:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Read the MotherJones story (0+ / 0-)

        on mass shootings. Excepting one, all were by men and mostly white males. 38 of the 61 had mental illness but were able to buy guns legally. What does this news and previous such news say about the USA, who are we as a society when such young innocent lives are taken so violently. I have felt sick to my stomach today evening. I haven't even told my kids yet (one who is in grade school). Shame on all the politicians and "leaders" for abetting such killings with their stupid "laws".

        •  38 of 61 is not exactly the (0+ / 0-)

          basis for all the people who are blaming this on mental illness, and saying that anyone who commits acts like these couldn't get access to psychiatric help. No matter where I've lived in the country, I've been able to find free care on the city or county level.

          I wish people would stop assuming mass murderers are all mentally ill.

          It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

          by sboucher on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:25:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            I was simply reporting the numbers. It's not just a mental health issue, first it is a gun issue. I would even say we should repeal the 2nd amendment, the constitution needs to reflect a modern society. Why should any civilian need a gun. The more guns out there, the more violence and I do not want to live in a country with over 250 million guns, I don't feel safe.

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