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View Diary: Eerie: knife attack in Chinese school, also today, 22 *wounded* --- your move, MSM (163 comments)

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  •  We differ on the definitions (0+ / 0-)

    of appropriate response, don't we?

    Banning liquor didn't stop production, or sales, or drinking. It did create a new criminal class and decrease respect for the law.

    Banning marijuana hasn't stopped production (ask Mexico!) or sales or getting high or making insane amounts of money running contraband, leading to organized crime and increased violence.

    Banning abortion hasn't prevented unwanted pregnancies, slowed down incest or rape, or made women's lives easier or their health care cheaper.

    How is banning guns going to have a "better outcome"?

    LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

    by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 02:30:23 PM PST

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    •  Solid fraud all the way through. (5+ / 0-)

      Marijuana can be grown, and liquor can be easily made from universally accessible ingredients. Try making a Glock in your garage, or growing one in your garden.

      Abortion is a medical procedure that can still be accessed in many parts of the United States, or for the rich, abroad.

      You cannot shoot thirty people with a joint, a bottle of beer, or an abortion.

      And so what if guns would still be available to criminals? Then you can arrest them for having guns, before they do any other damage. If you argue that since criminals can do it, it's pointless to ban it, you have managed to legalize virtually any deed from mass murder on down.

      "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

      by sagesource on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:00:41 PM PST

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      •  Fraud? Nope. Reality. Human nature finds a way (0+ / 0-)

        and if the simplest route to satisfaction involves breaking a law, why then the law is irrelevant.

        Do you seriously believe every American citizen who owns a gun is guilty of what happened in Connecticut today? Every single one, individually?

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:24:58 PM PST

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    •  So what? (0+ / 0-)

      Listen, none of those bans you mentioned actually failed. Do you think marijuana use in WA and CO is going to stay the same after its legalization, or might it increase? Having laws making marijuana illegal has absolutely stopped people from using it, myself included--not everyone, but most people. Same with the 18th Amendment--it didn't TOTALLY stop people from using alcohol, but if you think it had no impact on production, sales, and consumption of alcohol in this country, I know some giant alcohol manufacturers who would like to have a word with you--or more accurately, would have loved to have had a word with the authors of the 17th amendment before it was passed and they went out of business. And banning abortion absolutely would and does have an effect on the number of abortions performed, especially in low income areas where women wouldn't be able to afford travel to places with legal abortion.

      But that's even beside the point. First, a ban on guns need not necessarily follow in the footsteps of its predecessors. We could implement it differently than the other bans you mentioned, if we so desired.

      And second, and most importantly, I'm not advocating a ban, and neither is the diarist.

      "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

      by rigcath on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:04:03 PM PST

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      •  So I'll ask you, too: is every American citizen wh (0+ / 0-)

        o owns a gun at fault for what happened in Connecticut today?

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:25:56 PM PST

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        •  Of course not. What's your point? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil

          "In an individual, selfishness uglifies the soul; for the human species, selfishness is extinction." -Cloud Atlas, by David Mitchell

          by rigcath on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:33:44 PM PST

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          •  Thank you. Many people have said YES (0+ / 0-)

            to that question today.

            My point is very simple. We must realize that as horrendous as this event is, what happened at Sandy Hook today is nobody's fault but Adam Lanza's.

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:58:09 PM PST

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            •  Not a single person who ever opposed tighter gun (0+ / 0-)

              controls (and note, this is a different but quite likely overlapping set to people who own guns) bears even the tiniest mote of responsibility for this?

              Interesting.

              •  Interesting, majyqman, that you think people (0+ / 0-)

                who never set foot in Connecticut are to blame -- whether or not they own guns -- because they are not on your side in this argument.

                Should Sig Sauer and Glock be sued by the survivors, or is that beyond the pale?

                LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

                by BlackSheep1 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:10:25 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  How many are proposing a ban on guns? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rigcath, Lawrence, RockyMtnLib

      Most discussions I've been in have to do with regulating. Licensing, mandatory training, registration, limits on some kinds of purchases, required liability insurance, and other controls - I don't think I've ever seen anybody propose outright banning.

      "...you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem." Mitt Romney

      by Catte Nappe on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 03:34:13 PM PST

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    •  This is completely nonsensical: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      2dot, rigcath
      Banning abortion hasn't prevented unwanted pregnancies, slowed down incest or rape, or made women's lives easier or their health care cheaper.
      I don't think anyone with two grains of sense has ever argued that banning abortion would do any of those things.  How would banning a medical procedure have any effect on incest or rape?  

      The only thing banning abortion does is make it a hell of a lot harder to get an abortion.  And abortion bans have certainly succeeded on that front.  Similarly, banning guns would make it far more difficult for people to get their hands on them.  Not a bad thing given the insane number of gun deaths we have in this country.

      "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

      by FogCityJohn on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:40:07 PM PST

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