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View Diary: Use Homeland Security $$$ for mental health care (138 comments)

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  •  No, not at all. Why would you jump to that (5+ / 0-)

    conclusion? Your question shocks me. I don't hold other gun owners responsible for this act.

    I'd like to keep the guns out of the hands of those who have mental illness of a type that makes them a risk or danger to others.

    But I'm under no illusion that we could or should try to take guns away from everyone just because I hate them. My family members who like them and others who use them responsibly are entitled to have them.

    "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

    by Gorette on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:42:35 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you. You are one of two people not to (16+ / 0-)

      say YES in response to that question.

      Many others have said YES.

      Many others are saying YES right now on TV and the radio and in newspapers and across the Internet. Some people are not merely saying YES but screaming YES.

      Some people are so afraid of guns that they want all guns banned.
      They're not thinking about the differences between people. They're not thinking about the differences in circumstances people face. They're not willing to consider that the situations they see everyday are not universal.

      Many, many people are saying there is no difference between your family members and others who use firearms responsibly, and the people who, as we saw with today's tragedy, do not; because some people ARE going to commit criminal acts, we MUST remove all guns.

      The question comes as a shock?

      Perhaps, maybe, possibly, that isn't altogether a bad thing.

      Thank you for your answer.

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 04:59:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  calm down, the vast majority of Americans want (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gorette, sawgrass727

        sensible gun control, not a ban on guns.74% of NRA MEMBERS have no problem with background checks. I don't know what you are watching or reading but i have heard no one put forth such a down right stupid idea. What I have started hearing is more and more people talking about the part mental illness and lack of care plays in these tragedies.

        The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die. ~ Edward M. (Ted) Kennedy

        by cherie clark on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:01:18 PM PST

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        •  I'm a gun owner, a military vet, and a (20+ / 0-)

          50-something woman.

          I am not now a member of the NRA; like my kid brother, I got a one-year membership once, for the American Rifleman magazine. At the time he shot a lot of black powder and I was a newly-minted Air Force firearms instructor. But that was in the 1970s, and the world has changed a lot since then.

          I do not, nor have I ever, agreed with what Wayne LaPierre has made of it -- as far back as Bush1, he showed his colors as a nutjob and a fanatic who gave not a tinker's dam for human life or others' liberty.

          I have heard commentators on CBS, PBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC call for a ban on guns -- either all handguns or all privately-owned firearms -- today.  To hell with the Americans who own and use firearms responsibly, and to hell with the Second Amendment, they cry -- guns are everywhere, and guns are evil. People don't use guns -- according to this hue and cry, guns exude such malicious power they actually influence people to kill other people using guns.
          Commenters here on this site today have been highly vocal and very offensive toward people who believe, as I do, that there is a difference between a citizen and a serf, a difference between a responsible person and a criminal, a difference between freedom and "being allowed to have one in your home as long as you don't take it out in public" (what a commenter here told me is the 'perfectly fine' UK official position with regard to a "weapon" like a pocket knife or Leatherman ).

          Not to mention calls for bans on "automatic weapons" which have been written right here on this site, as well as calls to "restrict high capacity magazines" and "bring back the assault weapon ban" plastered in diary after diary after comment thread all day long today.

          What's getting lost in the cacophony are the facts about the shooter today:

          The man who shot those children today did not legally own the handguns he used in his massacre, nor the Bushmaster, nor the car, found at the school. All those items belonged to his mother -- and he murdered her first, then stole all those items and fled to create further chaos, wreak further havoc, and slaughter children he didn't even know.

          The man who began by murdering his mother and ended by committing suicide had a history of mental illness.

          He is not the only such shooter to have such a history.

          But there's little if any talk about the lack of a proper mental health care infrastructure or affordable, accessible care, or followup to ensure people in need of treatment get that care.

          There's an awful lot of talk and writing about how awful it is that people in America can have firearms, though.

          That's what I'm hearing and reading and seeing.

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:45:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  a similar rampage recently was by car (0+ / 0-)

            a young person with a generally similar profile as this and other young shooters drove a car at high speed thru a street party and killed several other young people.

            An old person for whatever mental problem she had drove onto a crowded sidewalk and killed several people.

            It's not the car

            It's not the gun

            it's not the bullet

            it's not the trigger

            it's the brain.

             Sensible gun laws, sure, tune them up, make better enforcement and mental health services available especially by not wasting precious tax money elsewhere, but definitely make mental health care available, and especially work to remove the stigma of needing and asking for help.

               The local professionals and concerned citizens where I live created a sliding scale counseling service available, it helped me...
             

            This machine kills Fascists.

            by KenBee on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:16:03 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Why are they entitled (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chantedor, sawgrass727

      to own weapons that kill other members of society? You don't need the kind of weapon used by this shooter to hunt or protect yourself. We need to be able  to say to the people who love their fucking guns that are semi automatic weapons designed to kill a lot of people you cannot own them you cannot have them. Your relatives and friends cannot hold our right to live in peace hostage anymore.  14 kids dead and your defending your relatives who are good people? Please stop enabling this mentality.

      •  why should law-abiding Americans be (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fuzzyguy

        punished for the criminal acts of others?

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:10:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Punished? (4+ / 0-)

          You keep using the word punished.  

          Why would it be "punishment" for a private citizen to not be allowed to own a semi-automatic weapon if tougher regulations meant that all public places are safer?   It's that selfishness which is very off-putting around this issue.

          My kids were not at Newton but all parents know it could happen to their children at any school anyway.  I don't think it would "punish" the owners of semi-automatic weapons by having a mandatory Federal buy-back program if it means every parent--and every child--could have more peace of mind and more safety.  I think that is a worthy public health policy.    

          20 kids slain is 20 kids too many.  How many deaths are acceptable to you before you would agree that semi-automatic weapons should be forbidden? Or do you have a better alternative?  

          I wish your anger was being expressed at the fact that our public policies are broken than being angry at those who want to fix the problem somehow, someway, to save the lives of innocent people who happen to be in a public place.

          As Josh Marshall said, gun-owning advocates should be on the forefront of figuring out how to make our society safer, not fighting those who want to make it safer.  

          More guns and looser gun laws ain't working.   Something has to happen.

          •  Our public policies are broken? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KenBee

            Okay. I agree with that.
            We do not esteem the safety of our children enough to protect them.
            Oh, sure we give school districts police forces ...
            police forces aimed at the children inside the building, searching lockers and classrooms and backpacks with drug dogs.
            We confiscate knives and suspend boys for drawing pictures that look like guns and handcuff little girls for writing on the desks.
            We scream "drug free zones" and "zero tolerance"  and we demand children not be allowed to have the asthma inhalers that could save their lives; we strip-search teenage girls because maybe they've got a Tylenol or a Midol in their underwear.
            But we don't fund nurses in every building in every school.
            We will fund our zero-tolerance to the max, including advertising with big bold colorful signs that our schools are "gun-free zones" ... and we do not take seriously the danger posed by publicizing either just what soft targets our schools really are, or rampages like yesterday's celebrated so hard in a media demanding shock that such events are bound to inspire copycats.

            Let me ask you something. What do you remember about Columbine? Whose names do you still recall, from that tragic day when a pair of lunatics attacked their own school? Or from the day the Alfred P. Murrah building was blown to smithereens when a lunatic attacked a federal building and blew up children in the daycare center? Or the day a lunatic attacked Virginia Tech? Or the day a lunatic attacked a congresswoman's event at a Tucson mall?
            The names of the victims, or the names of the criminals who killed so many innocent people, including children, on those days?

            yes. Our public policies are broken.

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:03:44 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Good grief we need responsible gun owners (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sawgrass727, KenBee

      to be part of the solution, it is going to take everyone working together to fix this. Well scratch the NRA.

      The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die. ~ Edward M. (Ted) Kennedy

      by cherie clark on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:58:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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