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View Diary: Guns: A question of your rights? What about mine? (327 comments)

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  •  Benny - I know a lot more about guns (6+ / 0-)

    than the average blogger having spent 1969-1975 in the US Army. I have seen what guns will do to human bodies, up close and personal. When I left the Army, I left the guns behind. It's one of my coping mechanisms. I have been here at DKOS for more than six years, and have written 23,000 comments. Very few of those comments relate to gun control, although I do support the 2nd Amendment. I am certainly no troll and take offense at your suggestion.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 06:40:12 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  at this point, what you're doing is trolling (4+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      ExStr8, MariaSquared, humphrey, madhaus
      Hidden by:
      Americantrueandblue

      and i almost HR-ed your first comment because you're being such as asshole

      •  Benny - I was trying to give the diary author (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KenBee, methylin

        some perspective. He asked if it was still safe for his family to leave his home. It is as safe today as it was yesterday. That was my only point, but it definitely kicked up some dust. I have received about one HR every 5,000 comments or so.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:03:50 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The difference being (4+ / 0-)

          the risks of the road is a driver's individual choice. The risk of victimization by gun violence isn't.

          •  fisheye - I agree (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            fisheye

            My comment, which has created a lot of response, was completely misunderstood. I was not drawing any parallel between guns and cars. The author was asking if it was safe to leave his home. My only point was that the odds of him being a victim of gun violence was remote, even lower than being injured in a car accident.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:00:06 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah I apologize for my other reply (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VClib, Oh Mary Oh

              was snide. I did realize after reading more of your replies that your original comment was much more benign than I assumed. In the heat of the debate and day today. I'm sorry. Please take it as a reply to a different comment.

              btw, in my city Detroit firearm deaths are 4 times the rate of automobile accident deaths.

              My daughters sophomore classmate was killed recently in a hail of bullets. A 15 year old who happened to be in a car with her older sister and 25 year old boyfriend caught up in something terribly wrong.

              I drive down the road much more aware of the dangers as I get older, and much more alert. The prospect of getting caught in the line of someones fire whenever I stop to get gas or buy a pack of smokes just makes me intolerant of gun 'rights'.

              And I often feel, like the diarist, that I may need a gun to feel safe, even though I know having one will only make me and my family less safe. It's just a false sense of security and control. It's a terrible feeling.

              •  fisheye - no apology needed it's been a bad day (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                fisheye

                You are very kind to give some additional context. As some, including you, have pointed out in some locations the odds of gun violence are very high. I often view things from the perch of my safe suburb, which isn't very representative.

                "let's talk about that"

                by VClib on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:11:45 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  It's actually safer (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VClib, Oh Mary Oh

          than it was 30 years ago:
          http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/...

          And firearms use in violent crime has been decreasing as well, with victimization reduced by 34% just between 2000 and 2009:
          http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/...
          (see page 8)

          I don't mean in any way to diminish yesterday's tragedy. It was horrible, and we as a society should do everything we can to make sure it never happens again.

          But in order to respond effectively, we need to acknowledge reality. We need to break free from the media-generated illusion of a violent crime epidemic. The U.S. is safer now than it has been since the '60s.

          That's no comfort to the Newtown victims, but it should inform our decisions going forward as we try to figure out what we're doing right (and what we were doing wrong that resulted in the '80s/'90s peak in violence).

          "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

          by kyril on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:09:53 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Disagreeing with (0+ / 0-)

        you makes someone an asshole? HR'd for personal attack.

        "The government of the many, not the government of the money" - Nancy Pelosi

        by Americantrueandblue on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:55:44 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  We want a discussion... (4+ / 0-)

        VClib is doing that.

        A discussion includes all views. Lets put it all out on the table and talk about it.

        FORWARD! Obama/Biden 2012

        by Esjaydee on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:14:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  no Benny, it's you who deserve the hr (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib

        for name calling Vclib who is attempting to correct what he sees as hysterical, fearful,  and/or inaccurate statements that tend to exacerbate people's feelings, we are all wound up from this tragedy, calling him a asshole and a troll is a prohibited attack completely hrable, and not supported in any way by VClib's history or activity here, now, or at any other time.  You should know that.

        This machine kills Fascists.

        by KenBee on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:34:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  VClib is a respected member of DK and (0+ / 0-)

        definitely not a troll.  

        •  Slightly disagree (0+ / 0-)

          I would say VCLib has a style of interaction that is mildly troll-like.  It's not in-your-face troll, but slippery troll, as in slippery slope/Overton window stretching.  It isn't consistent either.  This is only the second time I've seen this user in a gun issues diary, but then again, a lot of people are in them today.

          When it came to Romney and his taxes and business, this user was engaging in some seriously trollish behavior, never once finding a problem with any criticism of Romney's tax avoidance or business "ethics."  Either VCLib was defending Romney (at least minimizing the issues) or not talking about it.  I never saw a single post condemning a single thing Romney did financially.

          There are plenty of financial/tax professionals who had some questions about Romney's behavior.  Yet this one had not a single nitpick.  I find that utterly amazing for a "respected member of DK" to have that outlook.

          Being as this is a completely different topic, there is nowhere near enough evidence on gun issues for me to make a similar claim, but on the other issues, I must speak up to say there's been some... concerns, and I'm not the only one to have said so.

          That said, none of the comments were ever strong enough for me to HR.  It's more a pattern than any one remark being inappropriate.

    •  It is not hysteria - it is a (15+ / 0-)

      NATURAL PROGRESSION OF AN UNCHECKED TREND.

      Seriously - get real about the gun lobby and help bring this discussion between the rights of peace-loving, non-violent people and gun owners back into the realm of the reasonable.

      Democracy is about balance.  We are totally out of balance on the issue of gun ownership in this era.

       

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