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View Diary: Guns: A question of your rights? What about mine? (327 comments)

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  •  There does need to be an discussion - (6+ / 0-)

    an very involved discussion, but comments like yours that I originally replied to do not do anything at all to advance such said discussions - tends to inflame rather than promote.

    I'm not going to say that I know what the solution, middle ground, or whatever is, but something needs to be done. And it does have to involve people on both sides of the issue in order to get something constructive done. It can't be just another "ban all assault weapons", which really didn't have any affect at all on anything other than many more Republicans getting elected

    •  I was merely acknowledging the reality (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      radical simplicity

      that our country has been hijacked by a toxic group of self-important, insecure, malformed and degenerate assholes who think that their "rights" and needs are more important than anyone else's, be it having to do with not wanting to pay your fair share of taxes, not caring about our neediest and oldest citizens, or not caring that defending their alleged "right" to acquire and own guns without limit has led to countless unnecesary deaths. I don't at all believe that calling out these cretins' anti-social selfishness is a bad thing. I think it's a good and necessary thing that we too often tend to shy away from in the name of misplaced "civility" and to avoid a real fight. We NEED to shame them into retreat. We NEED to call them out for who and what they are. We NEED to limit their "right" to own guns.

      As a responsible gun owner, I would think you'd understand the importance of separating yourself from such people who give people like you a bad name, and not, however subtly, defend them. As someone who owns guns for self-defense, I would think you'd understand that sometimes you can't, and must not, avoid a fight, but need to seek it out, to right a wrong and make things better.

      And yes, I absolutely continue to believe that for certain men, especially the "no gun control at all" nuts, guns are a penis extension, an imagined and intended expression of their "toughness" and masculinity, which they in reality lack.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:25:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  this sounds reasonable, but (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib
        As a responsible gun owner, I would think you'd understand the importance of separating yourself from such people who give people like you a bad name, and not, however subtly, defend them.
        but in practice, people who hate guns will insist that there is no difference, no matter how hard you try to separate yourself.

        the fact is that both sides have extremists who make it impossible for people in the middle to have a conversation.

        and, seriously, why are hoplophobes so obsessed with penis size?

        •  But in practice, not everyone does lump (0+ / 0-)

          all gun owners together, so I'm not sure what your point is. That because some people do lump them all together, it's bad to make sure not to? Huh?

          And why am I supposed to be extra sensitive to the delicate sensibilities of gun owners today of all days? Don't you have a sense of priority?

          I'll say it again. If responsible gun owners won't police their own, we'll do it for them, because it obviously means that they're not entirely responsible.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:15:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  it is not about being "extra sensitive" (0+ / 0-)

            it's about not picking a fight you don't have to in order to solve a problem.  you ask if I have a sense of priority? my priority is to enact laws and policies that will do the MOST good, not scare the crap out of a huge group of single issue voters who might otherwise join us in making this country safer by creating less shooters.  
            these rampage shooters never just snap.  there is always a history of problems and warnings leading up to the shooting.  we have an opportunity to show moderate gun owners how universal (mental) health care can greatly reduce the number of incidents like this without infringing on what they consider an essential liberty.
            if we are truly concerned about the victims, shouldn't we be looking to do something effective about the underlying cause of the problem instead of jumping right back into a debate that has been entrenched for longer than the people running the internet have been alive?
            every time the media serves up a killing like this, both sides start screaming the same things over and over.  the only people this helps are right wing politicians.  every time you focus on the guns, you make the NRA more powerful.  the only workable option is to look past the guns and go after the crime and the crazy in a systematic way.
            like it or not, gun owners vote.  if we stop making ourselves scarier than the people doing the shooting, they will start voting their interests.  
            we have to make a choice between making ourselves feel better by screaming about guns, or looking for a solution that will actually reduce the number of times someone is allowed to go so far off the rails that they decide to kill a bunch of people.

            I don't care if guns are the more obvious problem, if we can actually reduce the number of shootings, isn't that a better goal than screaming at each other over guns while the problem goes on?

            •  It's not a huge group (0+ / 0-)

              Even more Repubs and NRA members are ok with sensible and prudent gun regulation. It's basically insecure far-right rural and exurban white nutjob men who really do believe that the black helicopters are coming, and craven political operatives looking to exploit them for political gain. I don't believe we need to or should try to cater to these Chuck Norris wannabe lunatics, and in any case they're never going to listen to us no matter how "gentle" we try to be with them. They are the enemy and need to be treated as such.

              Of course, I'm not advocating that we engage in name-calling of the sort I've been engaging in here out in the broader political world. This site is a "safe" community where we get to discuss things openly and sometimes vent and say things we wouldn't and shouldn't say in the "real" world. But just between us "friends", it's simply indisputible that these people exist and are the main source of the problem, and I'm not interested in pretending otherwise.

              The anti-gun regulation group is a small but very vocal and politically effective group. It's time that we, a much larger group, be as vocal and effective.

              "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

              by kovie on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 11:12:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

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