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View Diary: Disband RKBA Today (344 comments)

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  •  I don't want to quit dialog (2+ / 0-)
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    deedogg, ancblu

    In truth I believe that talking is how we grow and learn about each other. (Late reply, I had to fix mr.u his dinner). What I reacted to was the idea that I could be responsible for this, it's outrageous.

    My support for the 2nd stems from my belief that we have never perfected the Constitution and our country by restricting or getting rid of rights, only by maintaining and expanding. Example, I'm an alcoholic with 20yrs sobriety. I understand why Prohibition was attractive but it was a nightmare for the country.

    I believe that like the drug laws that have followed the prohibitive mind set, gun banning would cause a ripple effect of more crime and more violence. I do think we need to actively enforce things like registration and limiting purchase to shut down black market gun sales.

    But, ultimately that wouldn't have changed this horrible incident. There is something very sick in our society, the inequities of our health care system and wealth distribution have rotted our society at it's core. We have a bigger problem to fix, IMO.

    "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

    by high uintas on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:27:19 PM PST

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    •  high uintas, in another thread I asked someone (3+ / 0-)
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      high uintas, ancblu, deedogg

      if they believed that every gun owner in America is responsible, partly, for what happened today in Connecticut. The person responded that they did not believe that, and were shocked that I would ask.

      Here I find Dr. Erich Bloodaxe, RN, claiming that, yes, every gun owner in America, and even Americans who don't own guns but do support the right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed in the Constitution, is partly to blame for the massacre at Sandy Hook School today.

      We're not just seeing "liberals" and "Democrats" crying out to control guns or change the Constitution, but tarring people for their beliefs as guilty of a massacre.

      That's just mindboggling, to me....

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:11:18 PM PST

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      •  To me, too. (3+ / 0-)
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        BlackSheep1, ancblu, deedogg

        Like I said, it's like Thought Crime. Amazing....

        "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

        by high uintas on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:50:00 PM PST

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      •  Actually you're misunderstanding me. (1+ / 0-)
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        Smoh

        I'm not blaming 'every gun owner'.  I'm blaming everyone who advocates for the current, ambiguous second amendment, which we can easily demonstrate has allowed unchecked gun violence to continue across the country for centuries.

        Not all gun owners do advocate for the current expansionist second amendment, nor seek even to expand the ways in which it is viewed, and to make such violence even more widespread as a side effect.

        In my mind, it's little different than advocating for 'less government regulation' on businesses, which ignores the fact that regulations are specifically enacted to keep workers safe and the environment clean.  When such regulations are ignored, circumvented, or repealed, people die, whether in garment factory fires or mine collapses.

        Advocates such as yourself sound the same to me as do the mine owners who moan about how the government is 'anti-business' because it tries to demand safe, controlled working environments.

        •  So we are guilty of thought crimes. Wow. (1+ / 0-)
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          deedogg

          We think differently than you, and therefore our thoughts make us criminals.

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:46:52 AM PST

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          •  Here's a parallel that might help you understand. (1+ / 0-)
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            Sandino

            White people benefit from 'white privilege', thanks to the inherent racism of many of our social institutions.  We don't seek to do so, we even often loudly proclaim that we don't, but we do, and those same institutions are detrimental to minorities.  People who do everything they can to maintain the status quo for those institutions are thereby partially responsible for the damage to minorities.

            In the same fashion, gun owners benefit from the status quo in the lack of real gun control.  If they then likewise go out of their way to promote that status quo, despite knowing the cost of doing so is more deaths, then they're likewise partially responsible for placing their own desires above the lives of those who will die as unintended consequences of maintaining that status quo.

            There's no 'thought crime' involved.

            •  Wow. I guess I had better stop believing that (0+ / 0-)

              the rights, experiences, or circumstances of individuals are ever more important than group notions of safety or benefit.

              LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

              by BlackSheep1 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:33:22 PM PST

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    •  I am not suggesting we 'ban' guns. (2+ / 0-)
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      Smoh, Sylv

      I'm suggesting we drastically change the way in which people access them, and change the 2nd to be more specific about the access allowed.

      In fact, in another reply I just wrote to another 2a supporter, I noted that I would even allow access to firearms to people without requiring them to even own those firearms.  To make it so if you needed one, you could check it out of a controlled 'militia armoury' for use, much as you do a library book, and return it to such a safe environment when you were done with it, so as never to worry about children finding it and playing with it, never having it stolen to be used in street shootings.

      And we do have many problems in this country that need fixed, but our current relationship with firearms and the support for the current, ambiguous and vague second amendment is one more problem among many.

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