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View Diary: Open thread for night owls: A national conversation on guns and violence (362 comments)

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  •  I Hope We Realize (2+ / 0-)

     That we have numerous democrats amongst our Senate majority and in our House of Reps total, located in red state territory, that we would lose if they supported any of the above.

    •  ANY of the above? You mean loosening... (12+ / 0-)

      ...gun-control laws? Keeping them as is? Having teachers and principals have guns in classrooms?

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:49:57 PM PST

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      •  Agreed ... and I have a Diary in me (4+ / 0-)

        And I am fully aware this subject will be Diaried to death yet ...

        There is a real disconnect. Even on this progressive site we cannot hold a rational discussion with those who actively support the RKBA.

        There is a hump we can't get past, and I've tried, God knows I've tried as have many others.

        The problem is that NO rational proposal is accepted because it is not a complete solution to the problem. Anything suggested is shot down with "That will not work".

        Well of course it will not work, not on it's own. When were we expected to deal with this issue in one go?

        "It's the thin end of the wedge" ... What frickin' wedge? The one that leads to a safe society?

        We have got to start, and we need the start to be something we can build on.

        I'll guarantee one thing. If we do not start it will never end. If that is not the outcome they want, then they damn well need to start talking.

        I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
        but I fear we will remain Democrats.

        by twigg on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:04:49 PM PST

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        •  exactly. think about this: (4+ / 0-)

          When we imposed lower speed limits in residential areas, that didn't stop all speeders, but it did significantly lower the number of deaths-by-car in those neighborhoods.

          Should we stop having speed limits because some people still speed?

        •  What does RKBA stand for? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          twigg

          Sorry..., but I've been looking at those four letters for a great many hours and I can't work it out.

          Better to just ask....

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:21:01 AM PST

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          •  It stands for (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NonnyO

            the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

            Taken from the wording of the 2nd Amendment ...

            "... the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

            I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
            but I fear we will remain Democrats.

            by twigg on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:25:52 AM PST

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            •  Thanks.... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              twigg

              I focus on the first part of the Second Amendment that every gun nut fails to remember (especially since finding the most Rev War soldier among my ancestors who fought in a bunch of really famous battles).  

              A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...
              The advantage of genealogy research is finding out a whole bunch of assorted interesting info on one's ancestors.  My most recent find isn't the only one who was in the Rev War.  I knew he had been in it..., but not until I found his application for a military pension after he broke his thigh bone and his shoulder bone did I read the list of famous battles he was in, and that he re-enlisted after the first three years, so spent a total of six years in the Rev. War.  He seems to have made it home uninjured, married, had a large family....

              I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

              by NonnyO on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 01:33:14 AM PST

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    •  Perhaps it can be framed within the context of (3+ / 0-)

      "assault guns and magazine clips" along with improved health care of all kinds, economic equality, and better care for returning vets?

    •  That is why the people have to rise up and demand (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      atana, jan4insight, Williston Barrett

      change.

      if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

      by mrsgoo on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:02:12 PM PST

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    •  Having a conversation? (8+ / 0-)

      I think that what a lot of people are feeling today is that now, in the wake of this tragedy, now while are hearts are open and the heartbreak is deeply felt, that now is the time to start having the conversation.  Yes, in some districts and states it will take courage, and will carry some risk to the prospects of re-election; but what so many are asking today is - if not now, when?  When would be a better time than now, while the hurt is still so deeply felt, while the tears still stream down our cheeks?  Now while our hearts are open and our compassion for these families pours forth.  What so many are pointing to today is that the problem is getting worse over time, that continuing to go down this same road of doing nothing does not appear to be very promising for the future of our children.  There are deep systemic problems in our culture that are not going away, that closing our eyes to will not cure, that are becoming more insidious and destructive.  At some point we will have to have this conversation.  We cannot continue to put it off forever.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Love one another

      by davehouck on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:12:39 PM PST

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      •  yes! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        davehouck

        If we impose some kind of "waiting period" after every murder-by-gun before raising the issue, then it will never get raised because there are stupid, senseless murders every day at the hands of people who use weapons that shouldn't exist, let alone be for sale in the corner store.

        •  I'm ok with having a waiting period (0+ / 0-)

          After every murder by gun where we don't talk about gun control, as long as no guns are sold during that same period. Just keep the status quo as it was just before the murder, not fewer guns, not more guns, that's fair, right?

          Republicans believe you need an ID to vote but you can donate millions to any candidate completely anonymously. (h/t jbou)

          by Calouste on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 11:00:27 PM PST

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    •  Then every last one of those Democrats... (5+ / 0-)

      ...should shut the fuck up the next time a mass-murder event happens. They have no right to say their hearts or prayers or thoughts or anything go out to the victims. They have no true condolences. If they're too afraid to act to change our policies, then they should shut up when the results of those policies become displayed for the world to see.

      •  It's always about re-election. That seems to be (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        delver rootnose

        the ONLY thing they are about. This is why we get so little done. They are living in constant fear (while constantly fundraising out of necessity). It's a screwed up system.

        202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

        by cany on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 08:43:02 PM PST

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