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View Diary: Shut Down the NRA group. (281 comments)

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  •  Why should anyone have to "deal" with them (19+ / 0-)

    Many of them admit to being NRA members.  The NRA is an organization that works to elect republicans.  That's a fact.  The big question is why NRA members spewing nonsense are tolerated on a site dedicated to electing democrats.

    In any case this is just a message board... they can't do anything to anyone

    •  Because they are here and are not going away. (6+ / 0-)

      If you want to deal with the NRA, you are going to have to deal with your own house first.

      See my comment to fly above.

      "If you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing!" (on a sign at a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans)

      by ranger995 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:26:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I've personally been of the opinion (27+ / 0-)

      That we should just let them have their own space, their own diaries. Leave them alone in their own RKBA things.

      But more members of this community need to stand up to them when they go outside of that group and shout down and intimidate anyone who posts a diary about gun control.

      They've already admitted that they're more effective at shouting down gun control diaries. So let them have their own space, and don't let them get away with shouting down dissenting opinions.

      P.S. I am not a crackpot.

      by BoiseBlue on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 07:38:54 PM PST

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      •  Define "shout down." (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk, high uintas, fuzzyguy

        Do you want an echo chamber?

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        by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:53:32 AM PST

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        •  It depends upon the reason for a given space. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber

          Businesses don't invite protesters into the board room meetings, by and large.  If a space is merely to voice opinions, then yes, it's good to have diversity.  If it is set aside to work on a specific project, then you don't want to waste time having to address ideas that work at cross-purposes to that project.

          It's a way of creating focus on working towards a goal.  Those who wish to voice other opinions can do so in their own spaces.

          The site as a whole is good to embrace diversity.

          I'm fine with the RKBA having their own spaces to voice their opinions and work on their own projects, and hope the people who join this group do not invade such spaces to derail their projects and goals, and certainly hope it will work in the opposite direction as well.

        •  No, I want a place to talk with civility (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber

          And I am sick of some members of your group derailing every conversation and turning it into a flame war.

          I have had civilized discussions with you about guns, but you know damn well that some members of your group are way too extreme and turn everything into a pie fight. I am tired of the group enabling those people. Yes, you eventually try talk some of them down, but that's LONG after they've crossed the line of civility.

          P.S. I am not a crackpot.

          by BoiseBlue on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:15:28 AM PST

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          •  You cannot know this: (0+ / 0-)
            Yes, you eventually try talk some of them down, but that's LONG after they've crossed the line of civility.
            you are not privy to our internal communiactions.

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            by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:21:04 AM PST

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            •  We know RKBA by what it does. (4+ / 0-)

              RKBA needs to change.

              You are a Dem activist who participates in a wide variety of subjects on this site. We need people like you to stay here.

              We don't need people who's sole purpose is support for NRA positions. The ganging up by the RKBA folks is offending a large number of people in this community. I can assure you that this community will unite to stop the gang tactics.

              look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

              by FishOutofWater on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:37:42 AM PST

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              •  Responding to diaries (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                high uintas, fuzzyguy

                is not 'ganging up" simply because you disagree.

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                by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:48:09 AM PST

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              •  The rec (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Glen The Plumber, high uintas

                is for the second and third sentence.

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                by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:49:12 AM PST

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                •  RKBA needs to change (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Glen The Plumber, ROGNM, BoiseBlue

                  I have seen groups that were far more essential to the Democratic community than RKBA get driven off of this site. I don't like seeing this site lose diversity.

                  I have paid close attention to research on internet group dynamics. Communities as a whole frequently drive out sub-groups. Sometimes it happens for all the wrong reasons. Many Hillary supporters left this community in 2008 because they felt that this place was hostile to them. That was unfortunate for this community.

                  We need a discussion on this community about guns that isn't held in an echo chamber. However, if members of RKBA continue to use bullying tactics, they will be driven out. That's how internet communities work.

                  look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

                  by FishOutofWater on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 07:28:57 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You only call them "bullying tactics" (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    high uintas, fuzzyguy

                    because you disagree with us.

                    they will be driven out.
                    Threats aren't helpful.

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                    by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:01:45 AM PST

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                  •  You have no idea how essential (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    fuzzyguy

                    groups like RKBA is to Democratic causes. One of the most powerful tools of the RW is NRA driven memes about taking peoples guns away.

                    There are a lot of people in the new swing states who will vote Dem if they feel that their gun ownership isn't under attack. Keep up with the idea of banning guns and states like Colorado and Nevada will go right back into the R fold

                    I can't speak for what day to day life is like in your area but I know mine and guns and the west are like white on rice. The fact that the Dems backed off of their anti-gun rhetoric brought out voters who were fed up Republican bullshit. Start it up again and watch them flee.

                    "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

                    by high uintas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:38:06 AM PST

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      •  That's why the rkba group is bad for site. (0+ / 0-)

        The best that can happen is that the propaganda outlet is contained. But half of the goal is a circle jerk of conservative slogans within a left leaning site that is left alone and unchallenged.

        One piece of free advice to the GOP: Drop the culture wars, explicitly.

        by Inland on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:02:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  CaptM - the NRA also supports Dems (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fuzzyguy, Avila, Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN

      who are strong 2nd Amendment advocates. An earlier diary had the full list of House candidates that the NRA gave contribution to. There were numerous Dems on the list. Gun control is not a Dem v GOP, left v right issue.

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 09:24:58 PM PST

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      •  NRA (4+ / 0-)

        endorsed Peter Shumlin, the incumbent Democrat, over his Republican challenger for Governor of Vermont.

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        by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:54:13 AM PST

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      •  Then primary Dems on gun control. If the (0+ / 0-)

        Republicans can impose discipline about fiscal matters then Dems can enforce discipline on gun issues.

        •  kmackle - why make this partisan? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          high uintas

          Dems dropped national gun control advocacy because we were getting our clock cleaned at the ballot box. Our passion for gun control on a national basis was making our candidates in the South, Southwest, and Rocky Mountain West uncompetitive. The Dem leadership realized that gun control was much better left to local and state governments who could tailor their laws to their local communities. The gun control laws for New York City don't need to be the same as Buffalo, Wyoming. All of a sudden the single issue voters who had been shunning our candidates realized that we had much in common and we started to be competitive in those regions where gun ownership is a way of life and citizens will vote based on this single issue.  

          If you want to push for national gun control, go for it. Just do it through non-partisan groups like the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. Don't make this a partisan issue for the Democratic Party. I have already seen that movie, and I didn't like the ending.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 07:13:13 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  If a party stands for nothing they do not deserve (0+ / 0-)

            to exist. The Republicans have made everything partisan. And if they have no accomplished all of their goals they have made damn sure that we accomplish none of ours. The Republicans are never going to be with us on this issue. Because gun control fundamentally violates those values Republicans hold the most dear. It does not matter how many kids die as long as we have the most limited government possible. That goes for gun control, consumer protection, product safety, health care, taxes all down the line. The modern Republican party opposes gun control because freedom. Any regulation of any type of gun is a loss of freedom to these folks.

            I think we see Republicans as more cynical than they really are. They believe that children should work around farm equipment because freedom. Inspection of meat packing plants is bad because freedom. Unregulated Wall Street is freedom. Etc. It is not that the Republicans are owned corruptly by the NRA it is because Republicans are true believers. They are fellow travelers in these conservative causes. It is progressives who are corrupt.

            •  If we make this a partisan issue (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              high uintas, fuzzyguy

              and force national gun control onto the Democratic Party's national agenda, we will lose the progress we have been slowly making in the South, Southwest, and Rocky Mountain West. Hopefully our national Democratic leaders will also recall seeing this movie before, and the very bad ending.

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:48:31 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  "If a party stand for nothing...." (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fuzzyguy

              What your really saying is twofold. "If a party stands for nothing they do not deserve to exist" hmmm "If a party doesn't stand for what I want it doesn't deserve to exist".

              How do you like losing? Do you like having a permanent R majority and is purity in the party worth it?

              I'm not opposed to working out a sensible gun control agenda, but making this a partisan issue will do away with the gains our party has made.

              "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

              by high uintas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:44:53 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Republicans have been highly successful at pushing (0+ / 0-)

                policies that are unpopular but reflect Republican values. Republicans do thing that voters oppose all the time. Yet they keep winning elections. The Fiscal Cliff is unpopular yet the Republicans have held the House. They are all matching instep with one another. No breaks in the party ranks. No Republican will seriously discuss tax hikes unless forced to the table like a child. And they hold on to power inspite of being hated and promoting bad policies.

                So maybe if Democrats imposed party discipline on an issue like gun control we could have the same results as Republicans. Instead of worrying about this seat or that we woory about what is right for the nation..

                What you are saying is if avoiding gun issues keeps us in power than I am all for avoiding gun issues. Two days ago I might have agreed. But there are 20 5 year old children that scream in my ears NO MORE. If you can not take a stand on an issue involving 20 murdered 5 year olds then  you have no moral center. If you are too afraid of the NRA to fight for kids safety i will understand if you chose not to get involved. But I will also develop a very cynical view of a party that I have walked precincts for, raised money for for 25 years. And if Democrats will not stand for massive change to protect the public because of the scary NRA, then I am not sure the party is worth my time.

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