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View Diary: Shut Down the NRA group. (281 comments)

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  •  It was until 2008 that SCOTUS read a personal (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Avila, George3

    right into the 2nd amendment with District of Columbia v. Heller.

    Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

    by Just Bob on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:51:07 PM PST

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    •  *It wasn't until 2008* n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Avila

      Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

      by Just Bob on Fri Dec 14, 2012 at 10:51:50 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Keep in mind, though (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpunk, fuzzyguy, Avila

        that Heller didn't really reverse anything. Nor did McDonald.
        The Supreme Court hadn't ruled explicitly on it one way or the other before then. The closest they ever came was US v  Miller.

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        by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:46:50 AM PST

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    •  a comment (6+ / 0-)

      or even a diary wouldn't be enough space to really review the origins and intent of the Second Amendment, with the necessary consideration of The Federalist Papers, and James Madison's writings.

      The Second Amendment presumes (as did the framers) that private citizens will possess private arms; Madison referred offhandedly to "the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess." But Madison also implied that the right to bear arms is based in the obligation of citizens to band together as a militia to defend the common good, as opposed to the prerogative of citizens to take up arms individually in pursuit of self-interest and happiness. (The Atlantic, March 1996, Wendy Kaminer)
      US v. Miller is instructive, as well.  i'd really love to see a History for Kossacks overview on Madison's writings, because one could ask ten people to explain the Second Amendment and there'd be ten variations in the  answers.
      •  Should that history ever be written (3+ / 0-)
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        Avila, blueness, Glen The Plumber

        it might include an account of Shay's Rebellion for insight into the thinking of the founders regarding an "well armed and well regulated militia."

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

        Plan to seize the Springfield Armory

        On November 28 a posse of some 300 men rode to Groton to arrest Job Shattuck and other protest leaders in the area. Shattuck was chased down and arrested on the 30th, and was wounded by a sword slash in the process.[18] This action and the arrest of other protest leaders in the eastern parts of the state radicalized those in the west, and they began to organize an overthrow of the state government. "The seeds of war are now sown", wrote one correspondent in Shrewsbury,[19] and by mid-January rebel leaders spoke of smashing the "tyrannical government of Massachusetts."[20]

        While government forces organized in the east, Shays, Day, and other rebel leaders in the west organized their forces, establishing regional regimental organizations that were run by democratically elected committees. Their first major target was the federal armory in Springfield.[21] General Shepard had however, pursuant to orders from Governor Bowdoin, taken possession of the armory and used its arsenal to arm a force of some 1,200 militia.

        Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

        by Just Bob on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:05:50 AM PST

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      •  A number of state constitutions, though (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fuzzyguy, Avila

        including my own, do specifically enumerate the right to bear arms for the defense of self.

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        by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 05:47:59 AM PST

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        •  papi, you know (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Glen The Plumber

          i love you, but we see this entirely differently.  i'm not saying i'm right or you're wrong, but rather:

          Madison's meaning regarding the wording, the letter and the law in the Second Amendment . . . you up for a debate?  (i need a few days' notice but would welcome that.)

          how the above applies today, to our society and the right to KBA . . . you up for that debate?  (i blame violent video games like Call of Duty for much of the mass gun violence we've seen, but not all.)

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