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View Diary: Shut Down the NRA group. (281 comments)

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  •  Before you request that, you might check out a (6+ / 0-)

    few of my recent responses to other RKBA member comments.  I'm thinking of a rather fundamental difference in how firearms are accessed in this country.  Ownership would not imply the right to unfettered possession 24/7, for instance.  I'd like to change the conversation from 'banning' specific types of guns or clips or magazines, and to 'well-regulating' gun access at the specific point in time guns are going to be used.

    To seek to have the vast majority of guns stored at secure facilities whenever not in use, and checked out from licensed armourers who would have the discretion to call in police to talk to users who seemed to be acting oddly at the point they want to check out firearms.  On the flip side, you wouldn't necessarily even be required to own guns.  You could check out state-owned hunting rifles for trips, for instance, if you had passed training requirements and background checks.

    If you think we can work towards that goal in common as well as in reducing NRA influence on legislators, I'll work with you with open arms.  I'm not interest in diaries getting bogged down in fights over the size of clips, the difference between clips and magazines, or the outward appearances of guns.

    •  We won't agree on everything (6+ / 0-)

      but we've never had to.
      We do seem to agree on the salient point: the influence of the National Rifle Association is destructive and must be reduced or countered in some way.
      Whether that influence be legislative or cultural or both.

      To seek to have the vast majority of guns stored at secure facilities whenever not in use, and checked out from licensed armourers who would have the discretion to call in police to talk to users who seemed to be acting oddly at the point they want to check out firearms.
      No, we'd not agree on that.

      But we could focus on those places where we do.


      by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:00:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ok. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Glen The Plumber

        I'll send an invite, and hope we can keep things focused on the actual problem to be solved.

      •  The NRA warps the RKBA (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kestrel9000, oldpunk, VectorScalar

        int a partisan issue. The right to self-defense is universal and is neither reserved exclusively the state nor the cultural base of the NRA. The wingers need to get over themselves and their racial paranoia.

        That being said I support some demand-side reforms, where they would be most effective:

        If people, particularly poor people, feel more secure communities to begin with, they wouldn't feel compelled to arm themselves.

        If people had better access to mental health care and the stigma surrounding mental health care was removed, especially for men, then there would be fewer ticking time-bombs out there.

        If law enforcement was required to more assertively restrict weapon sales to mental patients and convicted felons, including the gun show loophole and private sales, then fewer disturbed individuals would have access to firearms.

        Finally, I'm going to say something that will get me HRed, but we need to allow teachers and professors and administrators working the the classroom to defend themselves with all available legal self-defense options.

        •  not from me (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          oldpunk, fuzzyguy, VectorScalar

          you won't catch an HR.
          We probably don't agree entirely on what the gun show loophole is and isn't, but that's okay.
          We can have that conversation another time.
          I agree strongly with the remainder of your comment.


          by kestrel9000 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:38:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Including arming teachers?? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sidnora, Bugsydarlin
            •  Yes, arm the teachers. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              There is absolutely no need to arm the students:

              I’ll repeat what I said in the Wall Street Journal op-ed section and on the Today show in 1999, after the Columbine High School atrocity: if we simply prepared teachers to handle this type of crisis the way we teach them to handle fires and medical emergencies, the death toll would drop dramatically.  We don’t hear of mass deaths of children in school fires these days: fire drills have long since been commonplace, led by trained school staff, not to mention sprinkler systems and smoke alarms and strategically placed fire extinguishers that can nip a blaze in the bud while firefighters are en route.  In the past, if someone “dropped dead,” people would cry and wring their hands and wail, “When will the ambulance get here?” Today, almost every responsible adult knows CPR; most schools have easily-operated Automatic Electronic Defibrillators readily accessible; and a heart attack victim’s chance of surviving until the paramedics arrive to take over is now far greater.

              The same principle works for defending against mass murders…it just doesn’t work HERE, because it is politically incorrect to employ it HERE.  After the Ma’alot massacre in 1974, Israel instituted a policy in which volunteer school personnel, parents, and grandparents received special training from the civil guard, and were seeded throughout the schools armed with discreetly concealed 9mm semiautomatic pistols.  Since that time, there has been no successful mass murder at an Israeli school, and every attempt at such has been quickly shortstopped by the good guys’ gunfire, with minimal casualties among the innocent.  Similar programs are in place in Peru and the Phillippines, with similarly successful results.


              "Gun free" areas are hunting grounds for psychopaths and delusional infamy seekers. There is guarantee, much less substantive proof that any would stop them from acquiring weapons. We need to deny them the ability to prey at will.

      •  that's how it's done (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN

        on military peacetime posts.

        The bourgeoisie has stripped of its halo every occupation hitherto honored and looked up to with reverent awe. It has converted the physician, the lawyer, the priest, the poet, the man of science, into its paid wage laborers. - The Communist Manifesto

        by nolagrl on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:45:54 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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