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View Diary: Shut Down the NRA group. (281 comments)

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  •  As am I Deo (1+ / 0-)
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    Denise Oliver Velez

    I easily could have written the first part of your exchange. You're right that members of RKBA run the spectrum, that's why I love the group. We have one thing that holds up together and that is the support for the 2nd amendment.

    Read this exchange and think about where you stand and where the founder of this group stands. I'm not demonizing, I'm just saying that I doubt that I could conform to the ideas here. I don't know about you.

    "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

    by high uintas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 09:55:46 AM PST

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    •  Ah, how precious. And do you know which slaver (1+ / 0-)
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      Glen The Plumber

      I compared you to?  Thomas Jefferson.  Or any of the other slave owners among the Founders.  They were mistaken, and they created problems that resulted in millions of deaths during the civil war.

      That doesn't mean they didn't have good intentions or didn't do lots of things that were good.

      But keep holding onto to your position that you bear absolutely no responsibility for helping create an environment that results in 30000 deaths a year by defending '2A rights' unchanged if it comforts you.  

      I'm happy to stand by that exchange.  

      •  I would apologize, personally (2+ / 0-)
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        high uintas, Denise Oliver Velez

        It seems like a very heated exchange which got out of hand. The poster's first comment could have been written by a lot of people on this site who participate in various groups which are sometimes painted with and overly broad brush and didn't seem to warrant the kind of intense backlash it received because the poster was right to say that it is not fair treatment in my very and truly humble opinion.

        You are a gracious person. While you may stand by your words and points, you probably don't stand by the idea of stereotyping people based on their affiliation with groups and how individuals in some groups choose to behave. I don't see that aspect of your character, myself. You seem to handle nuance better than that. So, if this were me, I would probably apologize for being reactive about something I felt passionately about. Just my perspective.

        Click the ♥ to join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news & views written from a black pov - everyone is welcome.

        by mahakali overdrive on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 10:38:19 AM PST

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        •  I went back and reread that series of comments. (0+ / 0-)

          Nothing I wrote in that exchange was written 'in heat'.  I was calm, and everything I said was, and remains, the opinions I hold.  There are many who say that simply doing nothing to stop evil is complicity.  What I said was even less than that - that supporting positions that actually enable evil gives a person some small measure of responsibility, whether or not you personally wish those evil outcomes.

          Unqualified support for the second amendment, in my own opinion, makes you partially responsible for every outcome related to that support, both good and bad.   To the best of my knowledge, the group is designed to support the second amendment as written, and even appears to be in favor of the most expansionist, and thus most dangerous, interpretation thereof, based upon diaries such as the celebration of expanded gun rights in Illinois.

          My mention of the Founding Fathers who didn't believe in female suffrage and included many slaveholders, was meant to show that they were not all-knowing, and even doing what they thought was 'right', created a situation that has resulted in millions of American deaths since they wrote the things they did.  Rather than a thoughtful reply, I got back an 'OMG, he called me a slaver!'

          While I appreciate your willingness to play peacemaker here, I honestly don't feel anything I said deserves any apology on my part.  If you do, I'd be interested to find out exactly which part you thought requires an apology.

      •  I bear absolutely NO responsibility (1+ / 0-)
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        Denise Oliver Velez

        For what you are accusing me of. Zero. I have never given a dime to the NRA, never voter for a RW candidate, and mere hold an opinion. I find this incredibly offensive.

        My reason for showing this exchange to Deo and others is to show them where you stand, as you clearly stated. Let them be fully informed and then decide whether to join or not.

        Personally I would love to see the national arm of the NRA disbanded. The little local branches who safety train and hold classes are not the problem.

        "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

        by high uintas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 11:00:14 AM PST

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        •  I am a member of many groups (2+ / 0-)

          here at DKos - that doesn't mean I agree with everyone in them on every issue, nor do they agree with me.

          Nor does that mean one can avoid every person someone else has had a heated exchange with - heck it would be impossible to be here.

          I have my own strong objections to the NRA - because I know many of their ilk who are tied to not just right wing ideas but to groups like the Klan.  

          I will never give up my right to self-defense. I have never abandoned my principles embraced as a Young Lord and a Panther.

          But that does not mean I support people having armories - nor do I think members of known hate groups should have guns - at all.  

          As far as I'm concerned the whole Klan (and their ilk) should be disarmed.

          I also have peculiar ideas about hate speech - I wish we had laws like those in other countries - I butt heads with my ACLU buddies over this all the time - yet I still send them money when I can.

          Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

          by Denise Oliver Velez on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 12:27:16 PM PST

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          •  And, of course, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Denise Oliver Velez

            this particular group has not even put forth a true mission statement, goals, and so on.  While I would hope that many people will agree with me on the ultimate goal - reduced gun violence, I have no idea how many will want to sign on to some of the tactical decisions I've suggested in comments, and I have no real intention of being an group tyrant.

            In a couple of days, when the membership rolls are a bit more stabilized, I will probably promote a number of new editors, and admins.  I don't actually make it a point to stop into RKBA diaries, so I'd be open to advice to help avoid making people who spend time deliberately going into RKBA diaries to antagonize editors or admins.

            I do believe that the route the country has taken on gun violence seems to have been ineffective, at least in light of data from the last few decades, so we need some different approach.

        •  You air your opinions. (0+ / 0-)

          Do you believe that nothing you say has any impact on anyone?  Each and every one of us influences those around us by our words to those around us.  We each have a choice in the things we say to influence others.  

          The words I utter, the things I support, the comments I tip, those I HR, the groups I belong to all influence those who know me and read them and see them.  And I bear responsibility for all of them, and for the atmosphere they help to create and enable.   I believe the same holds for every individual. You reject the responsibility associated with your own choices.  

          That is my opinion, and you differ in your opinion.

          •  Yes, I do air my opinions, as you say. (0+ / 0-)

            When it comes to the 2nd and 99% of the people in my RL I'm a bit on the crazy liberal hippie side. When it comes to dkos I hope it causes people to think about the dangers of giving up rights out of fear. Of how easy it is to then move the goal posts a little bit further.

            I doubt that folks who were moved to up the ante on drugs knew they would be gutting the 4th enough to allow the War on Terror to deliver the killing blow.

            Once a right is given up it is seldom returned.

            "The scientific nature of the ordinary man is to go on out and do the best you can." John Prine

            by high uintas on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 02:55:42 PM PST

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