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View Diary: Morning Open Thread: Can We Talk? (37 comments)

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  •  it cannot continue but it probably will continue (6+ / 0-)

    Bottom line here is the issue is complex and nuanced and our form of government is not well suited to dealing with complex and nuanced issues.  Perhaps the reason is the general public is not equipped to understand and act on issues that are nuanced and complex.

    Example that comes to mind (while I am irritated at the cacophony of dawn duck hunters evidently reenacting the Battle of the Bulge from the number of shots) is that SC a couple of years ago amended the state constitution so as to enshrine the sacred right to hunt and to make it a crime for anyone to try to infringe upon these constitutional rights.

    The stated reason for this lunacy? Obama was going to enact a federal gun control measure which would outlaw and confiscate all guns and an amendment to the state constitution would stymy this attempt to abrogate 2nd Amendment rights.  (actually this was settled in 1865 at Appomattox but an amazing 80% of voters appeared to buy this argument)  

    •  Spot on, entlord. Complex and nuanced throughout. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eeff, Onomastic, entlord, Joy of Fishes

      The Fast and Furious debacle is a  perfect example the flurry of lies and misinformation that one must wade through to find the truth at the core of the matter.  What average citizen does that?  No, instead they rely on the "opinion" (not the investigative, unbiased reporting of a true journalist) of a news personality to tell them what to think.

      Your comment immediately brought to mind The Charge of the Light Brigade as we are fighting this battle from all sides:

      Cannon to right of them,
      Cannon to left of them,
      Cannon in front of them
      Volley'd and thunder'd;
      Storm'd at with shot and shell,
      Boldly they rode and well,
      Into the jaws of Death,
      Into the mouth of Hell
      Rode the six hundred.

      As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. John F. Kennedy

      by JaxDem on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 04:26:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Complex and nuanced ? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JaxDem

        In truth not at all, that's simply a situation we've created to avoid dealing with the problem.  We do it on every major issue.   All sides participate and all share the blame for the inevitable result.  

        •  Let me offer Flroida's Stand Your Ground law (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          xgy2, Joy of Fishes

          as an example of how it is complex and nuanced.  

          The article I cited above, Florida "stand your ground" law yields some shocking outcomes depending on how law is applied.

          If you claim "stand your ground" as the reason you shot someone, what happens to you can depend less on the merits of the case than on who you are, whom you kill and where your case is decided.
          Similar cases can have opposite outcomes. Depending on who decided their cases, some drug dealers claiming self-defense have gone to prison while others have been set free. The same holds true for killers who left a fight, only to arm themselves and return. Shoot someone from your doorway? Fire on a fleeing burglar? Your case can swing on different interpretations of the law by prosecutors, judge or jury.
          A comprehensive analysis of "stand your ground" decisions is all but impossible. When police and prosecutors decide not to press charges, they don't always keep records showing how they reached their decisions. And no one keeps track of how many "stand your ground" motions have been filed or their outcomes.
          Disparities have been driven in part by vague wording in the 2005 law that has left police, prosecutors and judges struggling to interpret it.

          It took five years for the Florida Supreme Court to decide that judges should base immunity decisions on the preponderance of evidence.

          Still unresolved is whether a defendant can get immunity if he illegally has a gun. And courts are divided on what the law is when a victim is retreating.

          The entire article is rife with examples of how inconsistently the law is used across the state.  After two high profile shootings this year, Gov. Scott postured with a Task force investigation on citizen safety and protection that was was stacked with proponents of the Stand Your Ground Law so it was no surprise when the published reports found no problems needing correction.

          You say:

          In truth not at all, that's simply a situation we've created to avoid dealing with the problem.
          and I respond as a resident of Florida that nothing is further from the truth.  Many of us want a solution and are more than willing to work on it. We are hamstrung by a Teapublican Governor who plays politics as usual.

          As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. John F. Kennedy

          by JaxDem on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 05:43:27 AM PST

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      •  morning Jax; that poem was always a fave of (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JaxDem, Joy of Fishes

        mine though it was really quite a bit off from the actual event that fostered it.  However since when do poets worry about historical accuracy?

        Small epiphany for me this morning (and I know this is a bit off-topic but then I frequently wander far afield) is that a Bowie knife does not make a good back scratcher.  
        Then there is my second epiphany:  if you do use a Bowie knife for a back scratcher, do not try to remedy the situation by dosing your back with alcohol.  the next time I do something similar, I will retain the alcohol for internal application.

        However quite an enlightening morning for me so far  

        •  Oh my, entlord! LOL (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joy of Fishes

          I'm sorry for laughing, but dear gussie I needed that ;-)

          I hope your back is alright now.  Guess we're never too old to learn new things as I can speak from my own experiences.  

          And you make a valid point: Poets (and Hollywood I might add) seem not to worry about historical accuracy.

          As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. John F. Kennedy

          by JaxDem on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 05:51:50 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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