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View Diary: Guns of December: Have the Apologists For Slaughter Finally Gone Too Far? (315 comments)

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  •  She kept unsecured guns in her house... (28+ / 0-)

    ...with a mentally unstable son.  What ending was she hoping for?

    You know, I sometimes think if I could see, I'd be kicking a lot of ass. -Stevie Wonder at the Glastonbury Festival, 2010

    by Rich in PA on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:20:01 PM PST

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    •  I think you can both feel sorry for her and (26+ / 0-)

      condemn her for her incredibly irresponsible stewardship of her guns.

      “liberals are the people who think that cruelty is the worst thing that we do” --Richard Rorty Also, I moved from NYC, so my username is inaccurate.

      by jeff in nyc on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:21:48 PM PST

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    •  how do we know they were unsecured? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pandoras Box, hester

      if she took him hunting, perhaps he knew where the key or combination were?

      "Let us never forget that doing the impossible is the history of this nation....It's how we are as Americans...It's how this country was built"- Michelle Obama

      by blueoregon on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 06:29:31 PM PST

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    •  You don't know that (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      arabian, ciganka, dskoe, Govinda

      If her son knew where the keys were, for instance, then she didn't leave unsecured guns in her house.

      And you don't know that she had a mentally unstable son.  All you know is that reports coming out of Newtown said he was -- but they've been wrong a lot in the last twenty-four hours.

      Why don't we wait to judge the victims until after we know a bit more of the truth?

      •  WTF?!!! (5+ / 0-)
        And you don't know that she had a mentally unstable son.
        Yeah right, he was a well adjusted happy young man.

        Just another faggity fag socialist fuckstick homosinner!

        by Ian S on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 07:11:32 PM PST

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        •  Sorry, you know nothing about him (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lostinamerica, arabian, Govinda

          You know he killed 20 children and 6 adults, then himself.  You don't know that he was mentally unstable -- many mass murderers are actually quite sane.

          What we know is that he was reported to have had a personality disorder and then reported to have been on the autism spectrum.  That smacks of medicalizing murder to me -- if there were a diagnosis from a physician, we'd usually have it in hand by now, and we don't, so I think one doesn't exist.

          •  So what you're saying is... (3+ / 0-)

            he was a well adjusted happy young man until someone proves differently. Good fucking grief!

            Just another faggity fag socialist fuckstick homosinner!

            by Ian S on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 07:35:43 PM PST

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            •  Do you have any evidence otherwise? (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lostinamerica, arabian, grover, wonmug, ciganka

              If not, then I recommend that you think back to the USS Iowa explosion.  Initial reports -- particularly those which support a popular narrative -- need to be treated with extreme caution.  These reports are already known to be wrong in important ways: first the shooter was his brother, then it was him.  First his mother was a teacher at the school, then she was, in fact, not connected to the school in any way.  First the principal let him in unchallenged -- all the while her corpse was lying in the entryway from him shooting his way in!

              I know that you normals don't like this, but most mass murders are committed by normals, not crazies.  We're blamed for them all the time -- but you'll have to accept that I take a somewhat jaundiced view of the claims.  As a gay man, particularly after the events of the USS Iowa, you shouldn't have too much trouble understanding that caution.

              •  Anyone who cold-bloodedly kills women and children (5+ / 0-)

                ...do not tend to be "normal".  It's a kind of sociopathic behavior.

                There is no such thing as a "good person" who commits horrendous acts of violence.  They may have pretended that they were on the outside, but inside there was a time bomb ready to go off.

                •  You don't know what you're talking about (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  lostinamerica, arabian

                  Sociopathy is not a recognized diagnostic term in the US (nor is psychopathy, which would be closer to what you meant.  See DSM IV B, axis 2, if you want.)  You are repeating old and discredited lies.

                  Here's a simple fact: most mass murderers are normals.  Period.  They are within normal variation.  They are not "sick"; they are merely evil and cruel.  You're repeating a popular blood libel against the mentally ill, and you need to stop.

                  •  Reclassification (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    BigOkie

                    I've done a lot of research on mental disorders.

                    Those terms were replaced with Anti-social Personality Disorder. Sociopath and psychopath are now sub-classified under A.S.P.D.

                    ASPD falls under Deviance, one of the 4 D's, as they're called, the themes which define abnormalities. Psychopathology has pinpointed this disorder to a T.

                    Lack of remorse, pathological lying, chameleon behavior are key components. This is the person who will look you in the eye and lie to you.  Irritability and impulsive behavior are normally revealed when they're around someone who fears them.  They ignore societal rules and laws. Inflicting pain, physical and mental, is a sport for them.  They literally have no conscience, as psychopathology has shown.  
                    Yet, they are pros at fitting into society. These are the grand slam Oscar winners of all time.  Their 'emotions' are manufactured. If you're upset, they cry with you. In reality, they don't give a damn.
                    They quickly assess and then exploit someone's vulnerabilities because that person has what they want, what they're entitled to. Feel sorry for one and they exploit that too. Narcissism is part of ASPD.
                    Others don't have to actually do anything for them to create a reason in their mind to retaliate. God help the recipient, which also can include anyone that person cares about.

                    As opposed to a psychotic break, these are lifelong traits normally first presented when in their teen years. It's usually a second diagnosis, the first being conduct disorder as a child.

                    They are not normal, but they ARE evil.  One interesting note on mass murderers: they have no expression. Because they have no emotion.
                    People are genuinely shocked  that someone they know could do something like this.  The clues were there, but they didn't know what to look for.

                    Grover Norquist is a boil on the right butt cheek of humanity.

                    by bluebuckeyewmn on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 03:06:59 AM PST

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                  •  It has been my understanding that MRIs (0+ / 0-)

                    can not provide information on the areas of the brain where empathy responses are stimulated.  At least I have reading about this, and thought that they had made some connections with this kind of behavior in some circumstances.  

                    I mean this is the first that I have ever heard about people such as this shooter being considered in the normal range.  

                    I have agreed with most of what you have said until we have reached this point.  I have seen people close to me struggle through psychotic states when they were out of touch with reality.  They were not dangerous, but they were very confused about what was really happening to the point where they were out of touch with reality.  

                    What I have seen and read about people who have carried out these attacks does seem indicative of some kind of perception of reality that is drastically different than what I would consider the norm, but not something that is common in most forms of mental illness.

                    Do you have any links to this information?  

                    It gets on my nerves, and you know how I am about my nerves...

                    by ciganka on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 03:28:23 AM PST

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              •  Obviously your definition of normal is somewhat.. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Matt Z, The Marti

                broader than mine. Look, this is nothing like the Iowa incident, for example, we know exactly who murdered the people at that school. And my definition of normal does not include someone capable of slaughtering six-year-olds.

                Just another faggity fag socialist fuckstick homosinner!

                by Ian S on Sat Dec 15, 2012 at 08:38:51 PM PST

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