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View Diary: Stop Taking The Bait on Gun Control! (91 comments)

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  •  Actions can have complex causes (8+ / 0-)

    This argument is foolish and uninformed.

    It's not which factor is THE real one or THE important one so that we have arguments about whether the problem is mental illness or lack or gun control.

    It's both.

    And I refuse buy your argument and loaded language about "gun grabbing" --- that psycho NRA talk.  Do you accuse the government of "rocket launcher grabbing" because those are illegal?  To imply that no line can be drawn between reasonable gun ownership and the complete availability of military grade assault weapons and ammo is ridiculous and dangerous.

    Dulce bellum inexpertis [War is sweet only to those who have no experience of it].

    by Fatherflot on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 11:14:24 AM PST

    •  What's wrong with the phrase gun grabbing? (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annecros, 43north, oldpunk, gerrilea, ER Doc

      It's a common enough expression. Everyone knows what it means. It's a common enough sentiment.

      Military grade ammo is actually much less dangerous.

      How big is your personal carbon footprint?

      by ban nock on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 11:22:48 AM PST

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      •  I can't speak for anyone else, ban nock, but that (5+ / 0-)

        term reeks of a mindset that guns are God in the kingdom of the constitution. The expression is associated with everything a lot of gun owners here have said they don't support; the NRA. It's inflammatory.

        I don't use the term "gun nuts" ever. I don't because a lot of gun owners--perhaps most--aren't "nuts". I'd rather have a respectable discussion than inflame.

        I'm pretty sure my thoughts on guns are 180 from yours, but I don't think you are a bad person or deserve to be slandered, for instance.

        202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

        by cany on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 11:26:13 AM PST

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        •  I'm more upset by exressions that reflect racism, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          43north, ER Doc

          classism, sexism, regionalism, and to tell you the truth I read them here with regularity. Every time someone mimics the midwestern accent by spelling "Amurican" I figure that fella is a frigin bigot.

          I used to search on this site every couple of weeks for expressions like white trash and trailer trash, and I'd find them all the time.

          I don't know that Frank Lutz or the NRA thought up that expression, I think it sprang up from popular sentiment because it's true. A lot of people just want to grab guns, take them away, I read it all the time.

          How big is your personal carbon footprint?

          by ban nock on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 02:48:38 PM PST

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          •  "Gun grabbing" is used by opponents of gun control (0+ / 0-)

            as a scare tactic.  It muddies the waters about discussions of any modifications on gun ownership and turns them all into "grabbing guns" rather than as a modification of how people who wish to own guns, do so.  We "grab guns" from people who have felony convictions, we "grab guns" from folks with disclosed mental illness.  We "grab guns" from those who wish to store guns without trigger locks. It's a silly use meant only to frighten.  

            You should keep your upset about expressions of racism, classism, sexism, regionalism.  One has nothing to do with  the other.    

            "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of the United States of America -9.75 -6.87

            by Uncle Moji on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 04:22:34 PM PST

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            •  I have no trigger locks, used to have a neighbor (0+ / 0-)

              who did time in the state pen and had a 45. I let my kids play there without a thought. Guy was way steady. Combat vet, seen plenty of stuff when he was young, not the type to flip out.

              Do those instances fit the scenario where it's ok to grab guns?

              I always had it in the back of my mind that if the stuff hit the fan my neighbor could deal with it. I have no loaded guns or amo in the house. I'm ok with some felons.

              How big is your personal carbon footprint?

              by ban nock on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 04:38:57 AM PST

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      •  It's NRA framing and it stinks of Frank Luntz (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lost and Found, emelyn, Kevskos, NancyK

        It's just as bad as "homosexual agenda" and a host of other such inventions.

        It irrationally and cynically precludes any kind of reasonable discussion of the issue.

        Shame on you for using it here.

        Dulce bellum inexpertis [War is sweet only to those who have no experience of it].

        by Fatherflot on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 11:36:39 AM PST

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        •  Well I didn't use it here, only talked about it (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gerrilea, 43north

          being used up further in the post, so shame on you saying shame on me.

          I'll just wait for your apologies.

          How big is your personal carbon footprint?

          by ban nock on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 02:29:03 PM PST

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          •  Was referring to OP's use that you supported (0+ / 0-)

            Technically, that's directed at the OP, but you regard it as a "common" and therefore neutral term.  It's not.  It couldn't be more charged with dangerous deep framing.  It implies that any effort to limit guns is "grabbing"---a very loaded word.

            Dulce bellum inexpertis [War is sweet only to those who have no experience of it].

            by Fatherflot on Sun Dec 16, 2012 at 03:15:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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