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View Diary: Michael Moore: The gun lobby, tonight, is on the ropes. (Updated 2x!) (192 comments)

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  •  So what's wrong with (9+ / 0-)

    serious penalties for the OWNER of a gun that gets used in a crime? It might convince people to secure their guns so they're less likely to be stolen and used to kill somebody. If Nancy Lanza's guns had been in a locked cabinet, maybe all the people who died Friday would still be alive.

    And why aren't there affordable, retro-fittable trigger locks that could be put on existing guns? Not everybody would use them, but some people might. And lives might be saved.

    That's two things we could easily do that wouldn't threaten anyone's freedom to own a gun, but might help prevent mass killings like the one Friday.

    This doesn't have to be a showdown on the 2nd amendment. There are things that could be done that encroach on people's freedom only a little or not at all.

    The 99% believe corporations are not people. The 1% believe the 99% are not people.

    by DixieDishrag on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:36:12 AM PST

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    •  I rec'd but (6+ / 0-)

      I also wouldn't mind a 2nd amendment "showdown."

      Energy, Budget Tax cuts, Lift American Spirits

      by my pet rock on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 08:56:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, don't get me wrong... (0+ / 0-)

        I have no problem with a showdown. Problem is, I don't think we can solve the problem by making it binary -- either no one is allowed to have a gun, or anyone can have any kind of gun they want. OK, that's overstating it, but it's not too far from some of the arguments I've heard.

        My husband and I own guns. None of them are assault rifles. They are under lock and key, and have been since our first child was born, 23 years ago. They are also stored unloaded. The key to the gun cabinet is stored in a place that neither of our sons, to this day, knows where to find it. Now, those things are certainly no guarantee. But they're somewhere in the middle between no guns and no gun restrictions. That's the point I was trying to make.

        The 99% believe corporations are not people. The 1% believe the 99% are not people.

        by DixieDishrag on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:00:18 PM PST

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    •  Oregon has some civil provisions (5+ / 0-)

      Wikipedia:

      In Oregon, gun owners can be held liable in civil court if a gun injury is caused by negligence, and can be held responsible for damages in a wrongful death claim if the gun kills someone.
      Criminal liability?  Not so much:
      State Representative Sam Hunt said gun rights advocates have for years fought—and succeeded—in preventing new legislation that would strengthen restrictions on firearms sales at gun shows. “It’s pretty strong from the gun lobby that they don’t want to see any change (to stricter laws) under any circumstance,” Hunt said.

      Portland child gun death attorneys point out that many states have child access prevention laws whereby adults can be held criminally responsible for not properly storing their firearms or for allowing children to have access to guns.

       Per Shulman Dubose, LLC.

      "Who the hell is Grover Norquist, anyway?" - George H.W. Bush

      by rsmpdx on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:05:36 AM PST

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    •  She's dead. That's a serious penalty. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ConfusedSkyes, RainyDay, blackjackal

      What kind of locked cabinet is going to stop a determined, clever adult resident of the house?

      This wasn't a kid. It wasn't someone who broke in and grabbed a gun.

      Apparently they went shooting together. Even if the guns were in a locked cabinet, it wouldn't be that hard to get the key. He certainly would have known where she kept it.
      Or just shoot her after they've got the guns out when heading to the range.

      We don't know yet how her guns were stored or the details of her murder, but it's hard to imagine how a locked cabinet would have saved anyone in this case. Or trigger locks.

      I'm not saying locked gun cabinets & trigger locks aren't a good idea, but not really applicable here, I think

      The Empire never ended.

      by thejeff on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 09:12:38 AM PST

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