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View Diary: National Review: Newtown Is The Price We Pay For Our Rights (236 comments)

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  •  Pass what law? (2+ / 0-)
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    Mister T, Sparhawk

    What law would have prevented this? Or the guy who shot his kid dead accidentally outside a gun store last week? Or any other of the countless gun deaths we have every year in the US.

    There are none - you can't be a little big pregnant. Either we have the 2nd amendment and the attendant gun violence that comes with it, or we don't.

    Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

    by absdoggy on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 02:41:50 PM PST

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    •  Just like we can't pass any laws (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gramofsam1, Hillbilly Dem

      against violent or child pornography, or where people can demonstrate... oh yeah.

      Stay fired up: now is the time to focus on downticket change! #Forward

      by emidesu on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 03:45:17 PM PST

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    •  No. (4+ / 0-)
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      Hillbilly Dem, Wilmguy, DBoon, blueoasis

      As Obama said, there's no way to completely eliminate gun violence through gun laws, but there is certainly a way to minimize the harm without draconian bans on all guns.  

      The weapon used in Newtown--the Bushmaster .223--would have been banned under a modified version of the Assault Rifle Ban that expired in 2004.  Let's imagine that highly imperfect ban was still in effect and had been updated to deal with manufacturers's work-arounds.  Imagine that 30-round magazines were illegal.  No doubt the killer could have done a great deal of damage with his handguns or a different rifle, but in all likelihood he would not have been so lethal.  It doesn't sound like much of a "win" to contemplate 10 Kindergartners dead rather than 20, but it is an improvement.  No reason we can't act quickly to bring down the body count.

      •  Actually, without that weapon and its magazine (5+ / 0-)

        There's a very good chance he would not have been able to get through the locked door he apparently blew apart to get into the building.

        And while he's trying to shoot out a dead bolt lock with a revolver, people would have had a lot more time to call 911 and get out of the way.

        History should teach humility and prudence, but America doesn't seem to learn. I've never seen a virgin who loses her innocence so often. -- Gordon Wood

        by stormicats on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:27:52 PM PST

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      •  10 kids dead is an improvement (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        That's great, thank you.  So, 10 kids dead is the price we pay for the 2nd amendment, just like the National Review said.


        Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

        by absdoggy on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:31:31 PM PST

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        •  No.... (0+ / 0-)

          10 kids alive is an improvement.

          I understand your sentiment, but I don't think it will lead to any diminishment in the gun violence problem in the US.  Demanding the improbable (a US without guns) or the impossible (a world without senseless violence) is fruitless and likely to alienate the responsible gun owners whose voices and votes are needed to make actual immediate changes to gun laws.  Maybe if we can get them on board we can counteract the celebration of firepower that now characterizes the shooting community, shaming the puerile fetishists and 2A fundamentalists.  That by itself would be a positive step.

          FYI, I'm in favor of a ban on semiautomatic weapons, if we can craft a good definition of that term that gun manufacturers can't easily weasel around.  And on large capacity magazines.  And require waiting periods.  And close gunshow loopholes.  If there are other steps, like requiring ammo etching or insurance, etc., that should be looked at, too.

          Would all of this absolutely protect all children from gun violence?  No.  But it certainly protects more than at present.  

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