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View Diary: National Review: Newtown Is The Price We Pay For Our Rights (236 comments)

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  •  TomP (0+ / 0-)

    With great solemn deep sadness in my heart, I would, if that were my duty, just as the military or police must, at times, deliver sad news to parents of the fallen. These are sad days indeed, but a tyrrany would be far far worse, please try to remember this. Please, TomP. Before you label me with negative words, please. I am not the enemy.

    •  Very easy to say (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Scottie Thomaston

      Yeah, right, you'd be perfectly willing to face these parents "if that were [your] duty."  Lucky for you that it isn't.  That lets you sit here and tell other people that the lives of their children have to be forfeited so that you can indulge your love of killing machines.

      Here's what I want you to do.  Turn your comments here into a diary and post it.  Tell everyone on this site how those 20 first graders were simply the price we have to pay for your Second Amendment "freedoms."

      Let's see if you've got the guts to say this someplace other than in the comments section of an aging diary.

      "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

      by FogCityJohn on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:45:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Are you advocating for a complete ban (0+ / 0-)

        on all fire arms? Because that is what your words suggest and that is what I advocating against.

        Now, in point of fact, this very diary already expresses this view, from negative perspective of course, so why should I repeat the identical sentiment in my own diary, just so that you can all attack me? And, to be honest, I already considered posting such a diary, days ago, but with the immature name calling and apparent complete disrespect and blatant ignoring of the main points I am making, why should I bother? My very first comment on this subject days ago received 2 HR's by people who didn't even comment on the thread to explain or justify their HR. And, upon close patient study of your rules, I found nothing in my comment to warrant an HR. So clearly you are a capricious group given to abusive disrespect of people and your own rules when someone voices a prudent reasoned opinion on a sensitive subject that you disagree with. So, I think the message was clear that if I did post such a diary, I would receive enough HR's to ban me from the site, even if my diary expressed nothing but an historical perspective of the intent of our founding fathers and the harsh facts about the abuse of power by governments that could easily fast become a tyranny, if not for the deterrent of an armed populace. And there is a price for this deterrent. You may not like what I am saying, but that does not mean that what I am saying is wrong. Now, if you are advocating for a complete ban on all fire arms and wish to disarm the populace, as they have in the UK, then clearly you do not want anyone mentioning the potential dangers of tyranny. However, I have the founding fathers on my side, and you have a large percentage of the population of Daily Kos on yours. And, I am not here to fight. I am here to express a tempered perspective. Personally, I think your words are born of fear and anger, not reason ... most certainly, not wisdom.

        •  Just as I suspected (0+ / 0-)

          You don't have the guts even to make your views known to the wider DK community.  

          And please spare me your persecution complex.  Poor you.  People are blatantly disrespecting you and ignoring your arguments just because you think that 20 dead first graders are simply the price we have to pay for your freedom to own lethal weapons.  Gee, I can't imagine why no one found that argument particularly credible or worthy of serious discussion.  The fact that you consider yours a "prudent reasoned opinion" shows just how out of touch you are.  

          You can also forget the BS about having the founding fathers on your side.  I can scarcely imagine they'd have approved of the kind of carnage guns are causing in contemporary America.  Instead, you have on your side five extremely political Republican Supreme Court justices, men who have a highly selective reading of the Constitution and one that always seems to yield the result most desired by the right wing of the Republican Party.  Funny that.

          So if you're too afraid to expose your "prudent reasoned opinion" to wider public scrutiny, then I have no idea what you're doing on this site.  Maybe you should return to RedState where you'll find others who think the lives of these children (and all the other Americans who have been the victims of gun violence) are a sacrifice worth making.

          I doubt I'll be seeing much of you, Mr. UID 641228.

          "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

          by FogCityJohn on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 04:00:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Let me repeat. (0+ / 0-)

            The view that such a diary would express was articulated in this diary, and the discussion in this diary well aired this topic on both sides. So why repeat, especially given the lack of respect demonstrated here? Why? You call this an "aging diary" but I voiced my perspective when this diary was not "aging." I posted this when this diary was high on the Rec list.

            You think I am your enemy, I am not. You want to take your frustrations out on someone. No thanks. I am not a victim, but I am also not a gluten for abuse either. By choice, I voiced my perspective several times on Daily Kos because I felt a tempered prudent perspective was needed. I knew I would be challenging people, but I felt that maybe a patient respectful expression of a tempered perspective would be respected. It was not. I get the anger. But in times of tragedy, one must see beyond the fear and anger. You have proven that a reasoned tempered perspective is not respected. You lash out. You are angry. You are afraid. And I get that. But a responsible approach to problems requires more than that. As I said above, your words are born of fear and anger, not reason, and most certainly, not from wisdom. I am not the enemy. I am not against additional gun legislation. That is not why I expressed my perspective. And now I am repeating myself here with you, and I doubt you are gonna hear me this time, since you did not hear me before. You want to take out your fear and anger on someone. Why don't you go hit a heavyweight bag, or do some yoga, something, but attacking me isn't the solution.

            •  Did you read my earlier comment? (0+ / 0-)

              I'm talking about this part:

              And please spare me your persecution complex.

              You're really, really, really caught up in your own suffering, aren't you?  Such a poor, tortured, tormented soul.  You can't even express your views here on a blog without someone "lashing out" (aka disagreeing) or "not respect[ing]" (aka proving wrong) your allegedly "reasoned tempered perspective."  

              I know you haven't been here very long, and I doubt you'll spend very much time here, but spirited discussion is what DK is all about.  We don't generally have a lot of time for people who are willing to sacrifice the lives of young children, though.  We progressives are funny that way.  We're all about this crazy compassion thing.  And we really don't have time for people who are so afraid of having their views challenged that they won't expose them to the site's readership.

              I've posted here about very controversial topics.  Somehow I managed to survive the onslaught of disagreement and discussion.  You might be able to do the same, if you really believed your position was so prudent and rational and tempered and responsible.  But deep down, you obviously know it's not.  (You admitted as much by saying you knew you'd get HR'd into oblivion if you posted it.)  Sorry, but I can't be bothered with that kind of intellectual cowardice.

              This discussion (such as it was) is now over.  Enjoy what will doubtless be your very brief time on the site.

              "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

              by FogCityJohn on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 06:23:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Did you read my comment? (0+ / 0-)

                It appears as if you did not.

                The views in such a diary are already expressed in this diary... two sides of the same coin. I have nothing new to add.

                And now I have stated that three times. So clearly you are not reading nor comprehending my words. But, you are angry and I really am not the enemy. I promise you that I am not. But I get the sorrow from this horrific tragedy, so I do understand. I have no wish to upset people further, for we are all grieving, in our own way, no matter what you may think.

                Whether I continue to contribute or not, I do not know. It's not that I cannot hold my own in a debate, but I just do not have the time to keep repeating myself to people, like yourself, who are clearly not listening.

                But, I have been a reader of this site for almost two years, and although I have only just recently joined, I do appreciate this site as a valuable contribution to the progressive movement, to the Democratic Party, and to our democracy in general... in a variety of ways, most especially, in the mutually respectful informed discussions. And as such, I shall always remain a fan and I expect to continue as an avid reader, no matter what. This site was invaluable for me during the 2012 election, and I can only imagine that it was equally invaluable during the 2008 election.

                However, on this one topic, many of you seem to be unable to remain civil and respectful. You have proven yourselves to be unable to listen to challenging perspectives. I guess this is understandable, given the horror of this tragedy. I understand, and I will not judge you all on your response to this event alone. No. I am reminded of the five stages of grief:

                1) Denial
                2) Anger
                3) Bargaining
                4) Depression
                5) Acceptance

                You might benefit from pondering these.

                Good day, Sir.

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