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  •  glad the first real test case hasn't happened (2+ / 0-)
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    kpardue, dwayne

    no 20 little Black kids shot all at once. (as well as no/few mass shooters being Black, I notice).

    These calls happen when there is a mass shooting. You may be right but you can't compare the shooting of one child to shooting of any, and logically conclude anything.

    Again, you may be right. IF they said that after ONE White kid was shot you'd have perfect comparison to be able to say what you do in the diary. But it seems like (because of what just happened in Newtown...mass shooting) you are comparing death of one Black kid to that of many.

    •  I think they probably have. (1+ / 0-)
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      But I have seen inappropriate comparisons made in the past few days. Weak arguments don't help us.

      Stay fired up: now is the time to focus on downticket change! #Forward

      by emidesu on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 05:32:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  oops not "any"...Many (0+ / 0-)
    •  Just one (2+ / 0-)
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      43north, raincrow

      JohnMohammed.  Maybe there are others since I've only heard reports of something like seven of the thirty mass shootings in the last few years

      Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

      by Mindful Nature on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:04:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hmmm. In some black communities, we get drive (15+ / 0-)

      by shootings where masses of people are killed or injured. Don't recall talks of getting those victims armed. Or maybe those mass shootings don't count because, what, the killers were in cars. Yeah, that's the ticket.

      •  bystanders killed when others are targetted? (2+ / 0-)
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        BlackSheep1, raincrow

        I think much of the horror of mass shootings as defined is that a shooter targets innocent people kills them all on purpose randomly.

        I agree that killings in Black neighborhoods, drive by shootings, do not get the attention they deserve. I live in a lower income community with mixed ethnicities and quite a bit of gang violence including shootings like you mention.

        All murders are heinous. In order to empirically show it is only race, as you want to, you would need to pick something that is equivalent.
        You would need to show that when mostly Black kids are slaughtered by a gunman in a mass shooting people don't care.

        OR even, if a white shooter in a white neighborhood targetted someone and innocent bystanding white kids were killed people called for changes and acted differently than they do for all the city kids who are killed.

        They might act different. And that'd be wrong

        •  Well known NY boroughs fact: (3+ / 0-)
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          raincrow, fuzzyguy, wwjjd
          Kill a black man in a black neighborhood - and the police come and go, like picking up a coffee.

          Kill a white man in a black neighborhood - and the police be here all damn week.

          ~ Reggie the Jamaican Pharmaceutical Merchant

          (sanitized for your protection)

          •  disgusting (1+ / 0-)
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            note that I do not disagree that there could be a racial element

            I've detect classist elements (it's a safe place we aren't like that here THIS community is...) and the lame media has picked that up as a meme. I noticed it and was offended for myself not growing up or living at all in that "class" of town (or rather the correct side of town in my town). Rural CT is so very very White. IT's hard to tease color out of it, I suppose.

            My comments are about the topic in the diary and it seems to be comparing shootings in Newtown CT to what happens to Black people/kids in some neighborhoods every day. The comparison has too many variabled to knnow for sure empirically if it's race.

            I grew up a socioeconomic and ethinic (but not considered any longer a 'racial") minority so I kinda automatically watch the news coverage of stories like this with that "sensor" on for any sort of bias. I am not obviously as sensitive to racial bias as if I were Black myself but I often look for it and compare.

            I said this above...Iv'e noticed difference in attention and response that go along the racial lines of the victims in other crimes...especially in the dissapearance of kids. I believe it. I've seen it even from afar.

            Just in this case people's being rocked by the NEwtown shootings...It feels like becaseu it was a targetted deliberate slaughter of NUMEROUS little kids by one person all at once, in a school.

            It's not happened before. may it never again

            peace to you

            •  In this comment, I list mass murders. (3+ / 0-)
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              AoT, raincrow, fuzzyguy

              Sadly this, including school children, isn't new or record-setting.

              Andrew Philip Kehoe (February 1, 1872 – May 18, 1927) was an American farmer and treasurer of his township school board, notable as a mass murderer for killing his wife, as well as 43 other people, including 38 children; and injuring 58 people in setting off bombs in the Bath School Disaster on May 18, 1927.

              He committed suicide near the school by shooting into dynamite in his car, causing an explosion which killed several other people and wounded more. He had earlier set off incendiary devices in his house and farm, destroying all the buildings, as well as two horses and other animals.

              •  this feels new to the country (2+ / 0-)
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                raincrow, 43north

                not because they are White kids. The peole who are adults today to not recall a mass shooting in an elementary school where kids were the primary target...ever.

                IT is that it was a mass slaughter of a large number of targetted kids. For example, even the movie theatre shooting in Colorado (a few kids were killed) did not change what people were saying. Most of those people were White it was a suburban place too...

                just not ALL little kids in their school

                even I feel rivited to this story more than all other shootigns (except the ones in my own neighborhood). For me it is that they were ALL little kids

                lets just agree to disagree if we must.

      •  They do get talked about (1+ / 0-)
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        but those shootings are part of the problem of the black community and the black community only and the television screen becomes a set of zoo bars for suburban white folks.

    •  1 of the deadliest driveby shootings in DC history (4+ / 0-)

      That's the very first sentence in this story 4 dead, six wounded...all teenagers. All black.

      The one and only comment on this story:

      Josh Trice

      What a bunch of animals...this is what we (society) has become. Our founding fathers would be so proud.

    •  Doesn't even have to be a mass shooting (15+ / 0-)

      Here in St. Louis, black people are shot virtually every day and no one hears about it. It gets 10 seconds on the local news. A few months ago, a college age blonde white girl was shot and killed in a robbery attempt (by a black person - the local media sure does make an effort to point that out) and just last week they were STILL talking about it and bringing her name up on the news. It's sickening.

      "How come when it’s us, it’s an abortion, and when it’s a chicken, it’s an omelette?" - George Carlin

      by yg17 on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:49:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That is a terrible thing (1+ / 0-)
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        that it is ignored

        I do not argue that gun violence in cities against (usually) Black victims is not highlighted properly and mourned properly.

        I argue only that you have to compare apples to apples oranges to oranges to be able to make a true correlation.

        You have to compare the reaction to individual targetted murders in white neighborhoods to that in Black neighborhoods. Or the reaction to White kids killed in a mass shooting on purpose by a gunman (like in Sandy Hook) to that of Black kids killed under same circumstaces (which I don' t fortunately have an eample of) in order to tease out other variables that might make it look like racism/bias but would not be.

        That does not mean I do not believe racial bias is not present. I am interested in showing it is so logically (or not)

        Again, part of the horror of this is that Numerous innocents in One incident were TARGETTED in a "safe" place (school). They were not bystanders who got shot by accident, They were not multiple individual people killed in multiple incidents.

        I am talkig about only the narrow comparison the diarist made to THE SHOOTING IN SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY and what can be compared to it.

        I do notice a racial bias when Black people are killed in general (compared to white people) as individuals. What irritates me the most is when a Black little kid is missing people don't react and the press doen't often make nearly a big enough deal about the missing Black child over a missing White kid especially if she is a little girl and especially for some reason if she's blonde.

        I just am not sure the LARGE reaction to THIS shooting is for this racial reason. I think it is not> It's because it's TWENTY LITTLE KIDS and that someone AIMED to kill them IN their SCHOOL.

        God grant me the innability to ever have the exact comparitive circumstance of Black kids killed to see what is true really about the reaction.

        Anything I say I fear will be taken as me not taking the deaths of Black kids seriously so I will go now.

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