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  •  which merits of which policy? (3+ / 0-)
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    James Kresnik, 43north, fuzzyguy

    The "collective rights" interpretation of the second amendment is a complete lie, fabricated in order to justify a supreme court decision just as racist as Plessy was.

    It's just as wrong as Plessy, and should have been reversed even more emphatically than it was in Heller.

    It's been a hundred years, isn't it time we stopped blaming Captain Smith for sinking the Titanic?

    by happymisanthropy on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 06:55:31 PM PST

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    •  Oh I see (0+ / 0-)

      It that the argument you are making.    Bizarre

      Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

      by Mindful Nature on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:03:28 PM PST

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      •  Bizarre? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        James Kresnik, 43north, fuzzyguy

        yes, it is bizarre that the Supremes tied themselves into pretzels arguing that separate and unequal fulfills the 14th if you simply spuriously claim that it is equal.

        And it is bizarre that the Supremes tied themselves into similar curlicues in Cruikshank.  The rights that Justice Taney said would belong to black people if they were recognized as people, could nonetheless be denied to black people in spite of the 14th amendment, because they magically had never been rights in the first place.

        Bizarre.  And true.

        It's been a hundred years, isn't it time we stopped blaming Captain Smith for sinking the Titanic?

        by happymisanthropy on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:33:35 PM PST

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        •  you've never read Cruikshank (1+ / 0-)
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          FogCityJohn

          I can tell.  Because that bears very little relationship to what it says about the second amendment.

          In fact there's a good deal of cruikshank that is still good law.  But I guess requiring specificity in criminal charges must be racist too?

          Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

          by Mindful Nature on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 07:40:43 PM PST

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          •  so then (0+ / 0-)

            you agree with the dissent in Cruikshank?

            It's been a hundred years, isn't it time we stopped blaming Captain Smith for sinking the Titanic?

            by happymisanthropy on Mon Dec 17, 2012 at 10:09:38 PM PST

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            •  To tell the truth (0+ / 0-)

              It is not a model of clarity.  The opinion and case are very fact driven, so it is hard to judge just how ore textual the holding was in fact.   However, both the opinion and "dissent" ( procedurally i believe it would be called a concurrence today) are as a technical matter concerned with how specific the allegations must be in an indictment to be valid.  The general discussion seems fairly Uncontroversial on its face, just from a quick read of its impenetrable writing.  Even today, charging people under statutes without saying what acts constitute a violation is critical.  Where the dissent goes awry seems to be in not permitting the indictment to go forward without specifying which right the offenders sought to violate.  That's tough because the proof would require mind reading.   It's a ridiculously narrow reading and such a bar would make hate crimes very hard to prosecute.   I know Heller discusses the second amendment as a federalism- fourteenth amendment issue, but I think this particular one has the most relevance to hate crimes legislation.  Not sure if it is dead letter now in that body of law though.  

              Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

              by Mindful Nature on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:09:28 AM PST

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