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View Diary: Ban the RKBA group? (191 comments)

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  •  Well, Ralphdog, the NRA does (1+ / 0-)
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    a (IMO despicably) good job of propagandizing -- and funding -- the opposition to "even the mildest and most sensible restrictions on ownership of, say, military-style semi-automatic assault rifles".

    But here's my question, and I'll ask you specifically: What arms DOES the 2nd Amendment protect?

    LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

    by BlackSheep1 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:57:45 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Muzzle loading muskets were what founders had... (0+ / 0-)

      in mind when the 2nd Amendment was written. And no lunatic was going to take out the entire population of a tavern with one when it was written. That's why the 2nd Amendment has become a murderously lethal anachronism in our day.

      Just like the garbled and partly plagiarized recorded oral tradition of a bunch of iron age tribal Semitic nomads (i.e. the Bible) is, let's just say, an extremely unreliable guide to modern living.

      •  Excuse me. The Constitution arose in 1787 (0+ / 0-)

        and the bill of rights followed on afterwards, ensuring ratification when some statesmen agreed to press for the entire document's passage rather than the version in which specific rights of American citizens had not been enumerated and thereby guaranteed.

        The former Confederation's members agreed to put this new system into practice beginning in 1790.

        On September 17, 1787, after three months of debate moderated by convention president George Washington, the new U.S. constitution, which created a strong federal government with an intricate system of checks and balances, was signed by 38 of the 41 delegates present at the conclusion of the convention. As dictated by Article VII, the document would not become binding until it was ratified by nine of the 13 states.

        Beginning on December 7, five states--Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Georgia, and Connecticut--ratified it in quick succession. However, other states, especially Massachusetts, opposed the document, as it failed to reserve undelegated powers to the states and lacked constitutional protection of basic political rights, such as freedom of speech, religion, and the press. In February 1788, a compromise was reached under which Massachusetts and other states would agree to ratify the document with the assurance that amendments would be immediately proposed. The Constitution was thus narrowly ratified in Massachusetts, followed by Maryland and South Carolina. On June 21, 1788, New Hampshire became the ninth state to ratify the document, and it was subsequently agreed that government under the U.S. Constitution would begin on March 4, 1789.In June, Virginia ratified the Constitution, followed by New York in July.

        Two years later the Congress enumerated the arms it expected every able-bodied white male to provide for himself, including quantities of ammunition as minimum requirements. This provision may be the first iteration of the Selective Service, as it created a uniform militia(note this does not indicate the wearing of identical or even similar clothing or regalia, with the exception of the possession of the mandated weapons, accoutrements thereunto necessary, and knapsack). The legislation also mandated that within a stated number of years all weapons would be upgraded to accommodate "balls of the eighteenth part of a pound" -- in excess of 3/4 ounce of lead per round. Musket-bearers must have two dozen; rifle-bearers, a minimum of 20, along with two flints and sufficient patches and powder to enable the firing of same. Further, those arms were to be kept in the hands of those citizens regardless of lawsuit, distress, execution or sale, for debt or the payment of taxes.

        This very well may have been the first property Congress deliberately and specifically declared off-limits to debt collectors.
        Provisions of acts of this Congress have been cited as the basis for Constitutionality of the ACA. We can't have it both ways: either mandatory health care provision (and funds for the relief of!) for sailors, which is nowadays seen as mandatory health care, AND the possession, maintenance, bearing and provision of firearms, are both Constitutional, or neither is.

        Rifles are specifically mentioned. Rifles were the state-of-the-art arms of the day; the requirements also enumerate officers' bladed weapons and accoutrements, as well as provisions for infantry and cavalry forces.

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 02:55:34 PM PST

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        •  You ignore my point. Intentionally, I presume. (0+ / 0-)

          Do you really think the founding fathers would have been cool with widespread ownership of mass murder devices like an AR-15?

          Yes, muzzle loading weapons were state of the art in 1780s. And it took something like a full half-minute to reload one. Hence no matter how malevolent an individual, he could only do so much harm with one before being stopped.

          It's like applying 1930s international rules to thermonuclear weapons. And equally foolish.

          •  You're deliberately ignoring my point (0+ / 0-)

            purpose of the acts including Amendment 2 was not to limit how much harm a malevolent individual could do (on an individual scale). Purpose was to enable the US personnel, who were specifically NOT a standing army or police force, to withstand / hold off attacks.

            But anytime I'm talking about a state-of-the-art weapon and you're talking about "mass murder devices like an AR-15" we are not communicating.

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 09:18:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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