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View Diary: Krugman On The Proposed Deal (341 comments)

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  •  The one thing that got me upset back in 2009... (10+ / 0-)

    ...was when Obama took Single Payer off the table in the ACA/Obamacare negotiations without any concessions and negotiated from a Public Option starting point.  We ended up with neither.

    I hate to think that here we go again, putting SS cuts on the table unnecessarily.

    But if by Friday we don't have a deal, perhaps the Maya calendar was right.  But until then lets highlight their nihilism.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 09:36:12 AM PST

    •  I have a feeling a lot of Mayans (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shockwave

      will be out desperately doing their Christmas shopping this weekend ;-)

      If you took the greed out of Wall Street all you’d have left is pavement ~Robert Reich

      by k8dd8d on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:08:29 AM PST

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    •  There are people who interpret that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shockwave

      calendar ending as a sign of a moment of great enlightenment.  Maybe if we don't have a deal, it will mean that the White House and Democrats were smart enough to wake up and back away from the table and taking the social safety net offers with them.

      Yeah, if only.

    •  HE WAS NEVER FOR SINGLE PAYER (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      artmartin, FG, democrattotheend

      He did not campaign on it.  There were not enough votes to pass it.

      He didn't take it off the table because it was never on the table.

      The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

      by fladem on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:22:32 AM PST

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      •  Yes he was (3+ / 0-)

        Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

        by Shockwave on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:32:54 AM PST

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        •  That was not (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          democrattotheend

          when he was running for President, which you well know.

          The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

          by fladem on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:43:29 AM PST

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          •  My point is that he took it off the table (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Laconic Lib

            It is the negotiating strategy I disagree with.

            He also did not campaign on gun control but he will do it because it is the right thing.  And he knows that Single Payer is the right thing.

            Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

            by Shockwave on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:59:22 AM PST

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            •  Nonsense (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FG, Aquarius40

              there was no support in the caucus, and he didn't support it.

              The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

              by fladem on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:03:02 AM PST

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            •  Have to disagree on that (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Shockwave

              I personally support single payer, but I think coming out for it might have doomed any chance of passing anything. Unfortunately, most people have a negative impression of anything government run. If it had been framed as a Medicare expansion it might have done better publicly, but it would have still been a very risky strategy and there's no way in hell it would have had the support it needed to pass.

              When I worked in the labor movement, my boss told me that during the debate over Clinton's healthcare, they were surprised that most of their members opposed single payer, because they did not think a government-run health plan would be as good as the employer-provided insurance they had.

              Single payer would be the best way to go if we were starting from scratch, but most people don't want to give up what they have. I will admit that when I worked in labor and had very good health benefits, I would not have traded it for Medicare.

              I wish they had started out pushing for an option to buy into Medicare instead of calling it a "public option." Since Medicare is a familiar program that has been successful that probably would have had more popular appeal than anything with the word "public".

      •  My own personal version of Hell (4+ / 0-)

        fighting every supposed Obama betrayal over and over and over again while ignoring that Obama is the most liberal President we've had since FDR.

        When we were ahead, people at DailyKos said to fight like we were behind. When we were behind, people at DailyKos said to give up.

        by NoFortunateSon on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:01:21 AM PST

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        •  Yeah. PPACA was way more Liberal than (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bryduck

          Medicare and Medicaid.

          Dude.

          "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

          by JesseCW on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:55:28 AM PST

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          •  I wouldn't say one was more liberal than the other (0+ / 0-)

            Just looking at the scope of the Presidency.

            When we were ahead, people at DailyKos said to fight like we were behind. When we were behind, people at DailyKos said to give up.

            by NoFortunateSon on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:40:58 PM PST

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            •  Really? You'd say whether or not private (0+ / 0-)

              insurance companies got a 15% skim right off the top has nothing to do with how liberal either bill was?

              "Furthermore, if you think this would be the very very last cut ever if we let it happen, you are a very confused little rabbit." cai

              by JesseCW on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:52:27 PM PST

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    •  Oh just shut up about single payer (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aquarius40, democrattotheend

      Holy shit.  That was NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN at that point in our history.  You didn't even have the Democrat votes to pass it.  You wanted him to start with something that EVERYONE in power knew wouldn't happen?  Are you serious?  

      Public option wasn't going to happen either once the Republicans decided to filibuster everything.  We had a "supermajority" for what?  4 months?  And that included JOE LIEBERMAN and a bunch of blue dogs that were waffling about abortion riders.  Now stop rewriting history.  I wish Kos would institute an auto ban for anyone bringing up this bullshit still.

      "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." -- Carl Sagan

      by artmartin on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:01:39 AM PST

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