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View Diary: Boehner spokesman: 'The president is threatening every American family with higher taxes' (124 comments)

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  •  The issue is that the other side is offering (14+ / 0-)

    nothing.  Why do we see leaks about what Obama offered but the only thing from the other side is No.  Where was their counter-offer?

    And finally, why are these negotiations private?  It seems that something as important as this should be done as publicly as possible.

    •  Well beyond leaks (9+ / 0-)

      The WH is now confirming that Obama's willing to cut SS, and you'd better believe that the GOP will use that against him in the future.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:08:45 AM PST

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      •  They'll use it either way, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean

        going into 2014 mid-terms. Except they won't be vulnerable to be called out as liars as they were on so many things in this past elections.
        This time and on this issue (Dems cutting SS benefits) they won't be liars.

        "When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two." - Nisargadatta Maharaj.

        by mkor7 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:20:07 AM PST

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        •  Which is part of why it's to stupid (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mkor7

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:21:04 AM PST

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          •  Proposing and Doing Are (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TomFromNJ

            very different.  If an actual laws is signed by Obama that cuts SS then it becomes a big issue.  But the problem for the GOP in trying to attack him on the law is they would have voted for it.

            How do you attack Democrats and the President for something they voted for?  That is the reality of this situation....any deal with have to have all the parties buy in and therefore they are all responsible for it.

            •  They do it ALL the time (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mkor7, Calamity Jean

              Their voters are stupid, that's how.

              "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

              by kovie on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:32:11 AM PST

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            •  Well, they won't have to attack (0+ / 0-)

              Democrats and the President. There won't be enough Dem voters showing up in 2014 if the Democratic party votes to cut Social Security benefits.
              Period.

              "When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two." - Nisargadatta Maharaj.

              by mkor7 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:46:01 AM PST

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      •  Obama willing to cut SS - So what? (0+ / 0-)

        Obama ain't running again! The GOP will use it against him how? When they are out defending SS? This proposal will not hurt Obama or the Dems. Obama will never be a candidate and any Dem who would be vulnerable to attack can say they were against SS cuts.

        •  Step back from the politics (0+ / 0-)

          There are real, live PEOPLE involved. People who rely on those benefits. I don't care one rat's ass about how it affects Obama or the Democrats. This isn't a game. Can we please look beyond the (D) vs the (R) for just once?

          "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

          by MargaretPOA on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:43:52 AM PST

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        •  Not the Dems who will vote for this POS (0+ / 0-)

          And sure it'll hurt Obama if he loses the senate or more seats in the house.

          "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

          by kovie on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:37:31 AM PST

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    •  Spot on (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miggles

      And that whole thing about offering to let tax cuts expire for people making over a million per year has already been rejected. So I'm a little unclear on what Boehner's counter offer is. What's new in that?

      "Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for a real Republican every time." Harry Truman

      by MargaretPOA on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:11:50 AM PST

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    •  Each side has specific levers to pull. (0+ / 0-)

      Each side is pulling his levers. You contradict yourself when you complain about lack of transparency and then say Obama is the only one leaking info. With this in mind, there are very few truly private negotiations anymore, what with our contemporary media (internet included).

    •  It stinks of racism to me (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PeteZerria, miracle11, SB1, Miggles

      The way Boehner treats Obama, his insistence that Obama present a reasonable plan, when Boehner presents nothing.  It's like Obama is there to serve Boehner.  And most sickeningly, Obama obediently follows Boehner's commands and puts cuts to social security on the table.  To which Boehner says, "that's a start, now do it like I say!"  

      Obama just won reelection, he should be demanding a reasonable plan from Boehner, not the other way around.  Call off negotiations until Boehner offers up something.  Force Boehner to demand cuts to SS, and then point out that it is not balanced to cut SS payments that people live on while taking a couple extra percent from millionaires.  

      None of this takes any particular skill at negotiating, it's the sort of thing anyone who's ever shopped on craigslist knows.  You don't make the seller's offer for him.  You don't tell the seller you're not leaving until you've bought the item.  It's impossible, really, that Obama cannot negotiate properly.  

      The more probable explanation is Kabuki.  The plan was decided long ago, and Obama/Boehner are just dancing to appease their bases (mostly the teabaggers, as Obama doesn't need to appease us progressives - we haven't even successfully primaried a Blue Dog).

      I knew this is what I was voting for on November, but somehow this stings worse than Obama's other betrayals.  

      "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

      by Subterranean on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:17:20 AM PST

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    •  We're going over the cliff (5+ / 0-)

      All of these offers and counteroffers are simply theater meant to position each side to avoid blame in the press.  Boehner does not have control over his caucus, he cannot deliver the votes on any deal Obama offers, and he's putting on a show to keep his job.  Boehner cannot and will not make a deal before he is re-elected as Speaker.

      For his part, Obama is making concessions to make himself seem reasonable and to maximize his leverage in the media.  He's been very careful not to offer a deal the Tea Party can go along with.

      There will be no deal before January 3.

      •  I Sure looks that Way (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomFromNJ

        My question for John Boehner has always Been:

        If the "Fiscal Pothole" is such a Bad thing, Why did Every
        Republican Vote for It ?

        I don't think the "Fiscal Pothole" is that Big a Deal.

        I think the entire Idea is Just another MYTH that some
        folks use to try to Force a Bad Deal to be Made.

        On Giving Advice: Smart People Don't Need It and Stupid People Don't Listen

        by Brian76239 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:45:58 AM PST

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      •  agree, Boehner has no power (0+ / 0-)

        start from there, look at what Obama is "offering" - no deal, we'll stumble over the curb and start all over again.

        Counting coup using the corporatist media megaphones to gain more advantage when the negotiations really begin next year.

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