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  •  Anti-Gun side is ignoring Pearl, Mississippi (5+ / 0-)

    In 1997, a disturbed young man named Luke Woodham (again - this is all about mental health issues, not guns) began shooting at Pearl High School in Mississippi. He killed two students and injured seven others until he was stopped by an assistant principal who'd retrieved his own gun from his car and held the boy until police arrived. Had he not, Woodham would have continued to the Junior High, where we intended to kill more students.
    Guns saved more kids than they killed that day. I don't think teachers should universally be armed (though whether registered gun owners should be able to have their weapons secured in the building . . . I don't know), but I do know that one armed man or woman could have stopped the slaughter in Newton, because it's happened before.

    “If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror be polished?” - Rumi

    by Jaxpagan on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:30:37 AM PST

    •  Prepare (4+ / 0-)

      to be told that honest citizens have no chance of prevailing by force of arms, because guns are bad. Or something. Hope you wore your flameproof long johns.

      "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

      by happy camper on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 10:40:27 AM PST

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    •  Two things are germane here. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BachFan, murrayewv

      Firstly,

      Had he not, Woodham would have continued to the Junior High, where we intended to kill more students.
      His intentions at that time and on that day are not a certainty.  

      Secondly, Assistant VP Myrick wasn't just some guy with a gun, he was a commander in the Army Reserves.  He had firearms and combat training.  Woodham wasn't stopped by an armed civilian, he was stopped by a trained soldier.  Your conclusions regarding this incident's applicability to the efficacy of an armed populace are unsupported by the facts.

      "It is not, you fucking liberal prick." ..My RW friend Dave's last words to me.

      by rb608 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:45:03 AM PST

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      •  Two things back (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annecros, BlackSheep1

        1) His intentions are taken from his statement to police. When the crazy shooter says he was planning to kill more people, I give him benefit of the doubt.

        2) The AP's background doesn't change the fact that armed civilians stop crime on a near-daily basis, often without a shot fired (which means they're not in the more-likely-to-be-shot statistics). I've heard the argument that the adrenaline effects would prevent someone not combat trained from responding quickly or shooting straight (though they didn't seem to slow Adam Lanza down), but in the real world, they do just that, and act with restraint when they do.

        “If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror be polished?” - Rumi

        by Jaxpagan on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:19:40 PM PST

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        •  Well, I guess there are two sides. (0+ / 0-)

          When a crazy shooter is leaving a facility where he had every opportunity to kill more people, I gotta think he was done, despite what his voices told him later.

          The AP's background doesn't change the circumstances of any crime but that one.  My only point was that it was a poor example of the other ones.

          "It is not, you fucking liberal prick." ..My RW friend Dave's last words to me.

          by rb608 on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:53:44 PM PST

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    •  Guns killed two kids that day (0+ / 0-)

      So at the very best case, guns in the hands of good guys merely manage to cancel out the evil that gun begets.

      So even in your best case scenerio, 2 students had to die. Whereas if Luke Woodham had no guns to begin with, nobody would have to die.

      •  There's no question about that. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annecros

        Luke Woodham was mentally ill, and therefore shouldn't have had access to guns - and likely shouldn't have been walking around loose. But until we take mental health seriously in this country - until it's as readily available as other forms of healthcare, especially to middle- and lower-class parents struggling with mentally ill children - we are going to have these murderous episodes.
        Most of them will not be front-page rampage killings like this - they will be murder-suicides: two here, three there, two here. Drip, drip, drip. Many of them won't involve firearms at all. And then there will be the suicides.
        Add up the suicides and murders resulting from untreated or inadequately treated mental illness - by all methods and means. Now compare that to the number of murders by legal gun owners who are not mentally ill. Tell me where our real problem lies.

        “If you are irritated by every rub, how will your mirror be polished?” - Rumi

        by Jaxpagan on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 01:50:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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