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View Diary: Durbin: Senate might not support Social Security benefits cut in fiscal cliff deal (164 comments)

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  •  July 2011 is the relevant history. (0+ / 0-)

    Obama put forward an offer that could never be accepted, and enjoyed the political benefit of the Republicans' intransigence.

    There's also November 2011, when he responded to Malaki's proposal to extend the troop presence by saying "Give U.S. troops legal immunity, and then we can talk."  Another unachievable condition instead of an outright "No."

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:30:20 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Obama did not enjoy much of anything in Ju1y 2011 (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      maryabein, marty marty, whaddaya

      I submit his change n tone in August 2011 was when he began to reap political benefits.

      Hint, it was not when Obama was playing Mr. Reasonable, it was when he became Mr. Fighter for people like you and me.

      •  Um, his opponents' political standing collapsed. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        whaddaya

        Don't you ever look at polling?  The approval rating of the Republican Congress dropped into the single digits after that episode, and they went from driving the national agenda to playing defense.  That episode was the end of the Tea Partiers momentum.

        In a two-party system, popularity is a zero-sum game.  Driving down your opponents' numbers is the same thing as driving up your own.

        His "change in tone" was made possible by the collapse of the opposition.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 11:45:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I look at polling often (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marty marty, whaddaya

          The precipitous drop you imagined was not quite so precipitous as you, erm, imagine.

          More signifcant was the President's increased popularity.

          And that came from the President's actions, not those of his opponents.

          You can look it up.

          •  ORLY? (0+ / 0-)

            I think you're a little confused.

            The President didn't have any increased popularity from that episode - his numbers fell, too, but they fell slightly, while his opponents' dropped dramatically.

            Here is the President's approval rating.  As you can see from the chart, his approval dropped considerably between the beginning of June and August 2011 (the period of the fiscal cliff talks).

            Here is the Congressional job approval rating.  Once again, you can see the drop from June to August 2011, and yes, it's quite precipitous.

            You are right about what brought his numbers back up starting in August, but that's not really relevant to the issue of the debt ceiling talks and how they affected national politics.

            Art is the handmaid of human good.

            by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:00:51 PM PST

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            •  Interestingly (0+ / 0-)

              I expressly stated the PResident' nunbers improved fron August 2011 on.

              In other words - "you are right" shgould have been the entirety of your response.

              •  So you were changing the subject. (0+ / 0-)

                What a shitty dodge to being proven wrong.

                To sum up: you were wrong about the effect of the fiscal cliff talks on the President's approval rating.  I was right about them.

                You were wrong about the effect of the fiscal cliff talks on the Republican Congress's approval rating.  I was right about them.

                So, you act bitchy.

                Pssshhhhht.  Miller Time.  I love being right.

                Art is the handmaid of human good.

                by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:10:37 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Heh (0+ / 0-)

                  Change the subject? I think the subkect of my comment was the President's popularity.

                  As to Congress, "precipitous" is an interesting word without a clear definition. But I'll concede the point.

                  My comment was intended to be a joke. I guess without the smiley face you missed my snark.

                  •  If it was a parody of a stubborn internet debater (0+ / 0-)

                    it was very subtle.

                    But back to the important point: Obama did get a big win out of the debt ceiling episode.  It was at that moment that the public and media caught onto the reality that the Republican Congress was a dysfunctional collection of kooks and nihilists, and their turn driving the national political discourse, which was so pronounced from the fall of 2010 through the summer of 2011, came to an end.

                    Art is the handmaid of human good.

                    by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:20:03 PM PST

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              •  No, you didn't explicitly say that. Quote below: (0+ / 0-)

                "I submit his change n tone in August 2011 was when he began to reap political benefits."

                Not "the PResiden' numbers improved."  "Began to reap political benefits.

                You were wrong, Armando.  He did not "begin to reap political benefits" only after changing his tone.  He reaped the enormous political benefit of the Republican Congress's approval collapsing well before that change in tone.

                Try not to indulge in dishonest just because you can't admit error.  It reflects badly on you.

                Art is the handmaid of human good.

                by joe from Lowell on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 12:13:48 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well now (0+ / 0-)

                  if you insist on being an idiot, I can't stop you.

                  Go fuck yourself for calling me dishonest on a mundane political discussion of no fucking import.

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