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View Diary: Why is Obama trying to bail out the GOP? (475 comments)

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  •  imo, crash probably would have happened regardless (0+ / 0-)

    of whether the bush tax cuts were enacted.  there still would have been the huge housing bubble, gigantic private sector debt, and a huge lack of proper regulation and oversight of wall street.

    ::

    it is very likely that the bush tax cuts will expire for the top, but eventually be extended for the bottom 98%.  R's could not sustain opposition to lower taxes for 98% of the population.  they would cave in and extend them without even demanding anything in return.

    going over the cliff is great for the tax code, but also means UE benefits, payroll tax cut and some good domestic spending will be lost.

    defense spending will also take a big cut, which is nice.

    ::

    the big question, which almost everyone here is ignoring,  is stimulus spending.  loss of UE benefits, payroll tax cut and domestic spending are anti-stimulative.

    R's are unlikely to bring stimulus spending up for a vote in the house (they have even blocked disaster aid), so there must be a trade.

    •  Where is that chart we used to see (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      condorcet

      all the time around here? The Bush tax cuts were the largest cause of the deficit we are now "forced" to address. Without those, we are having a very different conversation now.
      The crash would have happened, yes, but it would have been more of an isolated incident that we perhaps could have handled more effectively.
      By going over the curb, we are losing stimulus spending, but we are gaining revenue, which can hopefully be spent productively. Arguing otherwise is to agree that lower taxes is a good thing across the board, and that government spending doesn't help the economy, because, after all, we are simply returning to an earlier plateau of taxation.

      "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

      by bryduck on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 02:31:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  but the new revenue will not be spent. (0+ / 0-)

        R's will not approve new spending, so the money will just mean a smaller deficit.

        i would agree that if the new revenue would be spent on good things, it would be a great idea, but R's will not allow it.

        and the bush tax cuts are not big enough to change the conversation on debt/deficit b/c 1) media is obsessed with debt/deficit, and 2) debt/deficit are gigantic and cannot be closed without real economic recovery.

        ::

        imo, probably the best path is to go over the cliff, which will gain leverage of higher taxes and defense cuts, and then trade various things for stimulus spending.

        •  Well, we certainly agree, then, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          condorcet

          that going over the curb is the best path, in any case.

          "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

          by bryduck on Tue Dec 18, 2012 at 03:51:25 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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