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View Diary: I bought an AK47 online last night ... almost (updated) (250 comments)

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  •  How would you successfully prosecute a seller for (1+ / 0-)
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    I can only imagine if the seller knows the other person previously and would also be expected to know they have issues precluding sale. Otherwise, I'd think a person-to-person sale would be almost impossible to prove in court, assuming you have a halfway competent lawyer.

    I wonder how often someone has actually been convicted of doing that.

    •  A prisoner survey from back in the '90s found (5+ / 0-)

      that 80% of guns used by criminals in crimes were off the street, or from family members. The nature of the transaction makes establishing this criterion easier, but yes, perhaps not easy enough.

      A number of us on the RKBA side have asked if there are ways to require private sales to go through the NICS check without becoming an undue burden on seller or buyer, so that for guns that go from the legal market to the black market, there is at least a final legal sale and the paperwork to go with it, at least for the period of time such records are kept. If someone is turning up more than once as the "last legal buyer" of guns that turn up in the black market, you've got a likely straw-purchaser prosecution all ready to go.

      Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

      by Robobagpiper on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:56:09 AM PST

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      •  It shouldn't be that hard (1+ / 0-)
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        Require all transfers between private parties to go through a NICS check, and allow those checks to be performed at police stations. For buyers who really don't want the police to know what guns they own, they can go to a private FFL for the check (though, really, if your anti-state paranoia reaches that level, you should probably not have a gun). For everyone else, there will be a guaranteed location within a reasonable distance where the check may be performed.

        But for a "last legal buyer" system to hold up well, we need universal firearm registration.

        "Speaking for myself only" - Armando

        by JR on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:47:20 AM PST

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        •  Why would a buyer be so afraid of the police (0+ / 0-)

          knowing what they have?

          202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

          by cany on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 10:31:44 PM PST

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    •  Answer: you can't (2+ / 0-)
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      StrayCat, 51percent

      These laws are not enforced.

      That's why this market exists. It's why web sites like the one cited exist.

      That's why all the pro-gun comments in this diary are absolute garbage. They simply refuse to acknowledge the de-facto unregulated secondary gun market.

      "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

      by nosleep4u on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:02:16 AM PST

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    •  Straw purchase penalties for gun store owners (3+ / 0-)
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      Rick Aucoin, StrayCat, Joe Bob

      iirc are like a $20k fine and 2 years in prison. And that's with a incredibly high burden of proof, where undercover cops basically have to loudly announce their illegal straw purchase intentions inside the store. 3 guesses who's lobbying you can thank for that.

      "See? I'm not a racist! I have a black friend!"

      by TheHalfrican on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 08:36:31 AM PST

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