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View Diary: Stop Blaming Newtown Tragedy On Mental Illness (301 comments)

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  •  Eliminate gun violence from video and see what (2+ / 0-)
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    exlrrp, PsychoSavannah

    happens. Why not? I think you will see most arguments opposed are the functional equivalent of the arguments against gun control. Even the replies above smack of gun advocates: segments of this or that society use video/guns without excessive violence,

    "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

    by Kvetchnrelease on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 04:22:49 AM PST

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    •  Yes, Kvetch, a similarity which caused me to think (8+ / 0-)

      on it... but that is because they are arguments in favor of rights, as I said. Ex:

      Freedom of Privacy. Humor me for a minute and imagine what defenses are exercised by gun owners that would not be exercised by defenders of privacy?

      Plenty of people use their privacy responsibly. We shouldn't have it intruded on just because some people have misused the privilege to plot secretly about how to use bananas to take over the Island Nation of Donkeykongistan. Why, I use privacy every day while engaging in consensual non-reproductive social intercourse with a close friend who I would not want to reveal intimate details about. Privacy, exercised responsibly, gives people the freedom to express themselves in different ways at different situations.

      The only arguments that can ever be made in defense of rights and privileges is that they:
      - Offer a direct benefit to the society.
      - Do not harm the society when practiced correctly.

      Which is why it falls on statistics and, where required, res ipsa loquitur - the thing speaks for itself. America's only outliers related to gun violence incidents are our number of them and the number of guns we have roaming around freely; not our media. That is why these arguments are specious when made in favor of gun rights without responsible controls, but not in favor of any other right.

    •  Eliminate Ketchup from Your Diet (15+ / 0-)

      Why not? What's the harm? It's my prerogative to make arbitrary changes to your lifestyle based on my specious whim.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

      by DocGonzo on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 04:55:09 AM PST

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    •  We know what happens (8+ / 0-)

      when you eliminate weapons and don't eliminate the videos and games. We also know the majority of the people who play those games or watch those movies, don't pick up their guns and start mowing down six and seven year old children.

      I think you can make a general argument about the glorification of violence, I just don't think there is a direct correlation.

      I think it is a mistake to think there is only one kind of personality, with one kind of pathology, with the same motive, who will commit this kind of crime. Even if it would be possible to make a definitive profile, it is impossible to identify an individual person before a crime is commited.

      This is a second amendment problem. You limit the access to guns, you limit gun violence.
      I think it is strange to want to limit 1st and 4th amendmend rights that have no direct correlation, in order to preserve 2nd amendmend rights that do have a direct correlation.

      •  Wasn't Heller decided upon notion that in DC where (1+ / 0-)
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        Gun ownership was restricted there was a need for protection afforded by guns BECAUSE of the gun violence DC citizens faced?

        "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

        by Kvetchnrelease on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 06:30:14 AM PST

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        •  I don't know enough about (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lakehillsliberal, gramofsam1

          Heller to give an opinion. I do know that there were 14 massacres in Australia, before the massacre in 1997 in Tasmania, that killed 35 people, and that after the gun control law that was enforced after the 1997 massacre, there were zero gun related massacres. A study done about the decade after the law was implemented,  firearm homicide decreased by 59% and firearm suicide fell by 65%, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homocides and suicides.

          I am not saying that other aspects don't have an effect on the motivation of people committing these kind of crimes, but I don't think they should be the primary focus if the goal is to lower the casualty rate caused by guns.

          •  It's the guns. We are too stupid and stubborn (5+ / 0-)

            to admit the obvious.  As Churchill said, Americans will do the right thing when they have exhausted all other possibilities.  We are not the brightest bulbs in any box.

            •  His mum was American so is he a half-wit? N/t (0+ / 0-)

              "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

              by Kvetchnrelease on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:42:13 AM PST

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            •  I am not an American (1+ / 0-)
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              but I lived in the US for seven years, so I want to offer my defense for Americans.

              One of the reasons I moved back to Europe, was the sustained level of anxiety I felt when I lived in the US. Odd thing is that I experienced some bad things living in the Netherlands, while I did not have similar experiences while living in the US. So while I had no personal reason to believe that my life was more in danger in the US, I did feel danger was more imminent while living in the US.

              I think the US media reports on extreme violent crimes disproportionate to the actual number of occurences more than the European media does. And politically driven groups leach on to this fear, to use it for their own agenda.

              Obviously there are other reasons why the US is a more violent country, but for me the artificial fear driven into the population, is one of the main factors.

              •  I believe you are partly correct but Americans (1+ / 0-)
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                are pre-disposed to this type of fear, they always have been.  I think it is the myth of rugged individualism and a lack of true concern for others(lack of a safety net) that makes people so uneasy and fearful.  So many people live on the edge, it creates genuine fear and they focus that fear on others(usually people of color).

        •  Yes, but DC is a special case. (1+ / 0-)
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          It is a city. As a city, it actually has very low violence rates. The problem is that DC is bordered by two states and in close proximity of another three, making its gun control laws relatively less important in determining how many guns are around in DC.

    •  Force people to "pray to Jesus" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Silvia Nightshade

      ...and see what happens.  Already we have members of the Religious Right making similar (bogus) arguments.

      Are you a Green who has difficulty telling Democrats and Republicans apart? Well, I have difficulty telling Greens and Maoists apart.

      by Subversive on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 07:19:06 AM PST

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