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View Diary: Stop school massacres with a penis and a bucket. (264 comments)

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  •  Not very many adults in the building (3+ / 0-)

    Only four were encountered by the shooter.  The rest, correctly, concentrated on getting the children they were responsible out of danger.

    Of those four, two at least confronted the shooter, right when he entered the building (after already firing his weapons).   It isn't clear if they tried to talk him down or tried to take him down or both from the reports I read.  They died facing him, not running away or hiding.

    One of the four died while holding a door closed behind which were a bunch of children...who lived.

    The sketchy reports about the other (the first instructor who was killed) I don't know what she did.  Probably died before she could react if he just burst into her room shooting.

    Look...if you are a bunch of adults on an airplane, facing people armed with box knives, it is reasonable that they'd work out a plan and attack (this action killed everyone on the plane, but prevented the plane from being crashed into another target).  There isn't anywhere to escape to, the situation is hopeless if you don't act and most people are capable of contributing etc.

    If you are a handful of adults with a couple hundred children to protect, most efforts are going to be oriented around getting them out of the way.

    Most cases are somewhere in the middle. (like the mall shooting or Giffords shooting) where there will be some focused on getting potential victims away or shielding them from harm, others focused on calling for aid and a few, those with the best opportunity, trying to work out a way to attack the shooter that has some chance of success.

    Also, seriously, look at the tactical situation.  The first two adults to confront him were doing so in a hallway where his back was 100% secure (he'd just stepped through a door he shot out).   There is no opportunity to sneak up on him or subdue him here, short of charging across open ground or talking him out of shooting.  

    Whatever they tried, it wasn't going to work if he opened fire barring being blindingly lucky with his bad aim.

    Second room, one adult and a room full of first grade children.  The adult probably died almost instantly.  Not much chance for heroics there.

    Third room...the actions taken to hide the children seemed to have delayed the shooter quite a bit, as he never got to any other room and half the children lived.  In some ways what went down there is puzzling, and we'll never know why it took so long, and why the shooter killed himself rather than the closet full of children.   Perhaps the instructor's efforts to keep him from the kids and anything she might have said affected him somehow.

    I don't see any "mandatory helplessness" there.   Just a really fucked up situation where you're facing an armed man with a terrible tactical situation (only 2-1 odds in an open corridor and unarmed vs assault rifle, or 1-1 odds with a room full of children and unarmed vs assault rifle).

    Here's the thing about people like the shooter.  They don't tend to attack places full of big strong people with guns.  (eg, police station).   They go for places where nobody would reasonably expect to find a significant threat to an armed individual.  (McDonalds, schools and classrooms, movie theatre, parking lot with a bunch of people)

    •  That's a better description of events than I'd see (0+ / 0-)

      n before, greblos. Thanks for the information. I do think you're perfectly right about this bit too:

      Here's the thing about people like the shooter.  They don't tend to attack places full of big strong people with guns.  (eg, police station).   They go for places where nobody would reasonably expect to find a significant threat to an armed individual.  (McDonalds, schools and classrooms, movie theatre, parking lot with a bunch of people)
      Are there such things as building diagrams of the Sandy Hook school available? I don't have a clear mental picture of where the office / hall / classrooms Lanza accessed were. How far from the door where he shot his way in was he when he killed himself? The cops had arrived by that time, hadn't they?

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 12:29:29 PM PST

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      •  This site has a picture of the outside (0+ / 0-)

        with some explanation of where things are that you might find helpful:

        We should not be fighting about equal pay for equal work and access to birth control in 2012. Elizabeth Warren

        by Leftleaner on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 01:46:08 PM PST

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        •  Hmm, didn't work. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BlackSheep1

          I will try again:

          http://www.cnn.com/...

          We should not be fighting about equal pay for equal work and access to birth control in 2012. Elizabeth Warren

          by Leftleaner on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 01:49:13 PM PST

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          •  Thanks. What I'd like to see is a floor plan (0+ / 0-)

            but this is helpful too. Lets me know the shooter didn't come in from the far end of a hall away from the principal's office.

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Wed Dec 19, 2012 at 02:02:37 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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